Adding reverb to Tiny Terror?

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fiaj
Tiny Terror
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Adding reverb to Tiny Terror?

Post by fiaj » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:38 am

Okay, sorry if this sounds stupid… I don't know a lot about electronics.
I'm getting a Tiny Terror because I need something small, valvey and cheapish, and because it's a beautiful sounding little amp!
The problem is that I like to use a lot of subtle to cavernous reverb and I'm used to the wonderful spring reverb in the Rockerverb (maybe not cavernous, but the big crystal cave thing). so moving to the small, 'verbless amp is something I need to figure out. I have read lots of recommendations or reverb pedals, and tried a few that sound very good, but I don't really want to put anything digital in my signal path. If at all possible I would much rather attach a small spring reverb enclosure to the Tiny Terror permanently. It would save me going digital, save foot space (I use a lot already and often a synth too so the less additions the better) and would be a great add-on seeing as I would be using at least a bit of reverb 99% of the time.
Can I do this in any easy way? Am I being an idiot? Has anyone done this? any other suggestions?

Thanks for your time.

Jondog
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Re: Adding reverb to Tiny Terror?

Post by Jondog » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:54 am

Vanamps would be best. http://vanamps.com/products/sole-mate/ I'll also say adding an effects loop and running it in there after the preamp and before the phase inverter will give you the best results.
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fiaj
Tiny Terror
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Re: Adding reverb to Tiny Terror?

Post by fiaj » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:52 am

Yeah, I've been checking out Vanamps but if I have to spend £200+ (which I don't even have) then I'd rather get a kit for a standalone valve driven spring unit. I know there's a company selling a mod kit to turn an Epi Valve Junior into a standalone valve driven spring reverb, it's about £50 and a second hand Valve Junior is about £100. I'd rather have a valve in there, I reckon it would sound better and it would be a fun project.
I'd much rather be able to do something like that from scratch, it surely can't be that hard? but I can't find any real info.

Thanks for the suggestion anyway. If I have to go for a pedal and can afford it then the sole-mate would be my first choice as it's the smallest real spring reverb I know of.

Jondog
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Re: Adding reverb to Tiny Terror?

Post by Jondog » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:07 am

I don't know how much you could do with the TT mod wise outside of an effects loop. You have to rehouse it in a new chassis probably. A lot less amp in the valve junior and more room to use.
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Gladmarr
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Re: Adding reverb to Tiny Terror?

Post by Gladmarr » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:33 am

Jondog wrote:I don't know how much you could do with the TT mod wise outside of an effects loop. You have to rehouse it in a new chassis probably.
Agreed, plus the power transformer in the TT couldn't (not likely anyway) handle the current draw of the added driver and recovery tubes you'd need to do a real tube reverb in that amp.

a.hun
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Re: Adding reverb to Tiny Terror?

Post by a.hun » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:57 am

fiaj wrote:I have read lots of recommendations or reverb pedals, and tried a few that sound very good, but I don't really want to put anything digital in my signal path.
You hear that a lot, but I honestly think the time is long past when you need to worry about digital reverbs sounding 'digital'. Reverb is something that digital technology can do really well. Companies like Lexicon and TC have been making top notch high end digital reverbs for ages, amazing things which you'll find used as the main reverb units in almost all pro studios.

For guitar digital reverb pedals are also often very good indeed. I have both a Fender '63 RI valve reverb tank and an EH Holy Grail Plus, and the HG+ sounds near as dammit as nice to me without all the spring and valve related hassles. The HG+ is also much more versatile.

[FWIW...
- You'll hear complaints about the standard Holy Grail sometimes being noisy. My plus version is nice and quiet with all my amps and I like it a lot.
- The Fender RI tank comes with an incorrect 6V6 valve which when swapped to the correct 6K6 actually makes it sound and work as the originals did. But even so it is still extremely sensitive to vibrations including walking across the floor! If using it I actually need to isolate it by sitting it on some Astroturf or similar. Live it'd be pretty much useless - one knock and everyone would be holding their ears and cursing you blind because of the massive spring 'crash'!
- I've also heard great things about the Boss pedal version of the '63 reverb. Though for obvious reasons I haven't felt a pressing need to grab one myself.]


I'd agree that a good spring reverb can sound (literally) brilliant. But I also have springs in several combo amps, (Fender Blues Jr, Mesa Subway Reverb, Peavey Classic 30), and surprisingly the only one which sounds anything like as nice as either of my outboard ones is the one in the Peavey.

These days you could definitely be accused of 'cutting off your nose to spite your face'! :wink:


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

fiaj
Tiny Terror
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Re: Adding reverb to Tiny Terror?

Post by fiaj » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:24 pm

Thanks for the input.
I know digital effects have come a long way but I have yet to hear any that really please my ear. I have not tried a great deal of digital reverbs, so maybe there are some out there that are better than what I've heard, but everything still does sound digital to me… feels synthetic to hear.
I'm not arguing, and like I said there are many I haven't tried. It's one of those things though, it's all about personal taste and how your ears work.
I speak to people who tell me that vinyl coming back is just about nostalgia and are adamant that there is no difference in sound quality, even that uncompressed SACDs etc sound better (obviously CDs don't suffer from constant degradation, but with a well tuned turntable mint vinyl should sound clean for a lot of plays if it's a good pressing).
I have had debates with professional sound engineers who tell me there is no audible difference between a 16bit/44.1kHz WAV and a 320kbps MP3… I think those people are in the wrong trade or need to remove their earplugs. We all have different ears, sometimes these sonic differences can be less noticeable to certain people. I know digital/analogue FX is quite different than MP3/WAV comparison, but I think it's a similar thing to part of what makes vinyl FEEL so much better to listen to. It's a fact that the high fidelity of a well mastered bit of vinyl sounds much more open than a CD, CDs compress the life away, but it' not even the compression. There's a vast difference between 24bit/96kHz bounces I've done compared to 16bit/44.1kHz, losing the sound of the air and the tiny details. Uncompressed, it sounds much closer to actually being in a room with the instruments. but with vinyl it's more the FEELING of the sound, it still feels/sounds more "alive" than even totally uncompressed digital formats.
I find that with pedals, digital stuff just doesn't sound/feel alive in the same way, even if they can produce some quite amazing tones. This is my worry with reverb, and although there are many that I have not tried, it seems like it would make more sense to invest in something more traditional if what I want is an authentic spring sound.

Please don't take that^ as trolling, or argument. I'm just stating how I feel about digital/analogue and the different ways we all hear things. I know what you're saying and agree to a large extent, it just still doesn't feel quite right and I have yet to hear any digital effects that make me think "wow… that's digital?"

Anyway, seems like this might be my best bet for the money. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VTSR-1W-INTER ... 27cff17768" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and only a tiny bit more expensive than the Hall of Fame reverb I was considering if I did go digital.
I'll have to find a suitable chassis and it's will be pretty chunky, but it's valve driven, real springs, and fairly tweakable. I'm just trying to find some people around the interweb that have built one to gather their impressions.

Thanks for the input, and I hope Mr. Hun gets the way I wrote all that and doesn't just think I'm "trolling" as I have been accused of before. :) :)

Gladmarr
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Re: Adding reverb to Tiny Terror?

Post by Gladmarr » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:29 am

I don't think anyone should tell you what you want - that's not what you came here for. I just think it's funny that you're getting all audiophile about tube and spring reverb on the one hand while going on about your budgetary constraints on the other. There's a Matamp reverb unit on eBay right now. It does sound amazing, but it costs twice what a Tiny Terror costs - before the effects loop mod, of course. That's always the rub - quality vs economy. That's why most companies are making emulators.

Randy Bass
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Re: Adding reverb to Tiny Terror?

Post by Randy Bass » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:15 am

Doesn't Epiphone make a Hot Rod Valve Junior with built-in tube reverb? That would be a pretty cheap and easy way to get what you want if you can live without the Tiny Terror.
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Jondog
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Re: Adding reverb to Tiny Terror?

Post by Jondog » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:22 am

The kit looks cool, but pairing that with your TT kind of defeats small.
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a.hun
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Re: Adding reverb to Tiny Terror?

Post by a.hun » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:35 am

fiaj wrote:Thanks for the input.
...
Please don't take that^ as trolling, or argument. I'm just stating how I feel about digital/analogue and the different ways we all hear things. I know what you're saying and agree to a large extent, it just still doesn't feel quite right and I have yet to hear any digital effects that make me think "wow… that's digital?"

Thanks for the input, and I hope Mr. Hun gets the way I wrote all that and doesn't just think I'm "trolling" as I have been accused of before. :) :)
No worries fiaj, certainly don't think you are trolling. We are largely in agreement on the analogue vs. digital thing, and the best sounding 'hi-fi' rig I've ever heard was a pristine '60s British set up of Garrard turntable --> Quad valve amplification --> Quad electrostatic speakers. This was set up at an exhibition for comparison with a top flight then state of the art British CD based system, and there was no comparison. The air, space, reality were all self evident to my ears.

Also no argument with 24bit / 96kHz vs CD standard - did that comparison at my friends commercial studio years back and the difference was totally clear. So we are on the same wavelength there too.

What I was saying was specifically about reverb. As I say in my experience reverb is something which digital technology is now capable of doing extremely well. (And has been for some years!) Of course so is the traditional analogue technology, and to be honest you don't even have to have valves in there for it to sound good. I made the comparison between my two outboard units to highlight all that. I know that I'm also a bit of a heretic here - someone who is willing to give (shudder) solid state amps and even digital modelling gear (bigger shudder) the time of day. But I simply use my ears and fingers to judge if something is useful or not and my motto is "if it works it works!" regardless of the exact technology.

My Fender tank sounds wonderful with various amps. (Correctly configured with the right valves anyway - Fender could at least have re-biased it for the 6V6 they now fit, but since they didn't the correct 6K6 simply slots in and the unit suddenly works MUCH better!) Even on light reverb settings the unit gives a lovely sheen and space to sounds from all amps including my Hiwatt - a very good test of anything! And it works especially well at bringing the Natural channel of my Rocker 30 to life. Thing is that the EH HG+ does that subtle stuff as near as you like just as well. If I A/B'd them blind I promise you would find the differences tiny and almost certainly wouldn't find one 'better' to play than the other. That is really high praise, but I do like good reverb - in moderation anyway, and I also really do mean it.

But no argument, if you want to go analogue thats fine. I was just pointing out that you don't have to do that to get top notch results, and for me the convenience / versatility factor as well as the super sound quality means that despite my fairly fussy ears I don't actually drag out the Fender that often now.

I've never heard of that unit you are thinking of. If you get a chance to try it against one of the better digital reverb pedals though that should give you a good idea of how good it really is. There have been a few other genuine spring in a box units though, some much better than others. A fairly decent one was actually a cheap Danelectro, but I don't think that is in production right now.
Various other reverb suggestions here:
http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.p ... tro+spring" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Happy hunting! :D


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

Jondog
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Re: Adding reverb to Tiny Terror?

Post by Jondog » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:32 pm

For what it's worth, if you haven't checked it out already, I have the Boss 63 spring reverb pedal and I love it. I always have reverb and it was the one thing I missed having in my rocker. I tried the hall of fame but returned it, just didn't sound real to me at all. I compared the boss to all the grail reverbs and the boss digital reverb. It just sounded right and has the right nuances. I think the only one I'm interested in is the digitech hardwire which uses lexicon algorithms and is appearently amazing.
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a.hun
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Re: Adding reverb to Tiny Terror?

Post by a.hun » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:48 pm

Sounds lke the put the right virtual valve in the Boss then! :)


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

Hubaxe
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Re: Adding reverb to Tiny Terror?

Post by Hubaxe » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:00 pm

a.hun wrote:Sounds lke the put the right virtual valve in the Boss then! :)


Andy.
Any seasonned electronic repairman could install inside this:

http://www.banzaimusic.com/Accutronics- ... -Long.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


About the spring, digital war, I've played both, and honestly, the modern digital algorithm are doing very well (eq TC electronic).
Now for flexibility, I play a digital spring mode reverb :wink:
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sizzlingbadger
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Re: Adding reverb to Tiny Terror?

Post by sizzlingbadger » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:29 pm

Have you considered the Dark Terror, it already has a loop and you could put a reverb in there along with any other time based effects. I had one it was a great sounding amp.

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