Are Combos Bad For Tube Health??

ryan_adelphi · Post by **ryan_adelphi** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 6:05 am

My friend spoke with someone at a boutique amp shop in NY regarding Bad Cat and Orange amps (and I'm assuming this applies to ALL combos). He said that since the tubes in the combos are so close to the speakers, the constant vibration shortens their life. He recommended using a head and 2x12 instead... Has anyone had any bad tube experiences because of this? I'm sure the guy knows what he's talking about, but I've never heard a complaint about this before... Also are there ANY tonal differences when using a 2x12 combo as opposed to a head and 2x12 cab? Thanks!

My backpack's got jets, I'm Boba the Fett. I bounty hunt for Jabba the Hutt to finance my 'Vette. - MCChris

ceddyluv82 · Post by **ceddyluv82** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:01 am

Hey Ryan, I cant answer your second question because im not a guitar player, but I do agree with what that gentleman said. When you operate a tube under vibration you may loosen up the entire construction of the tube inside which may lead to hum, feedback, and a really nasty sound. Im definitly not saying it WILL happen to EVERY combo you have... but I will lean towards what he said.

Why are Orange amps orange, when they make everyone green with envy?

irish_admiral · Post by **irish_admiral** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:54 am

Yes, it's a fair point the guy in the shop made, but in truth, it doesn't kill your tubes too much. I've been using my combo without too many tube problems for a while now, as have other people here I suspect.

It'll only be easier on your tubes getting a cab and head if you take the head and put it in a different place from the cab, or put a thick rubber mat between it and the cab to soak up vibrations.

The only sound difference you'd get would be as the combos are open-backed, so sound a little warmer, and disperse the sound better. Not really that much though.

Don't tell me the best way, just tell me the cheapest way...

Andy H. · Post by **Andy H.** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:21 pm

I'd agree that life in combos can be hard on valves. They aren't that robust internally and the greater vibration from the speaker will tend to shorten their life significantly. Doesn't stop me from using combos though - 5 of the 8 valve amps I own are combos!

I have often used one of those 'astroturf' doormats under an amp head to give it a bit of acoustic isolation from the speaker cab. Haven't had to touch the power valves in my Orange head for ages, and they are still fine, so I do believe it makes a difference.

In favour of combos is that sometimes the acoustic coupling between valves and speaker can add to the sound in a way which a studio engineer I know who loves raw guitar sounds totally swears by. He is happy to ignore a little rattling as being a price worth paying...

Andy.

fiveightandten · Post by **fiveightandten** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:10 pm

FWIW, i'm a believer that part of the reason combos sound the way they do is because the electronics aren't acoustically isolated from the speakers.

The tubes and components all get vibrated by the large SPL's. However small it may be, i'm sure that affects how the amp sounds.

I believe it was Tony Bruno that did a study of the tonal difference between having the chassis in a combo, and not in the combo (replacing it with a "dead" chassis that was loaded and identical). Interestingly enough, a good number of people reported a difference in sound.

Everything from vibrations, to the magnetic field of the speakers affecting the circuit path in the amp would make a difference in how it sounds...even if just a bit.

Maybe i'm just being superstitious. Who knows. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

-Nick

ryan_adelphi · Post by **ryan_adelphi** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:50 am

Well, if a combo is going to sound more 'open' or 'lively', then I'll probably go with that. Besides, it won't bother me if it shortens the life of the tubes a bit. I'll be using it basically everyday at loud volumes, which will require me to replace them sooner than usual anyways. Thanks for the info!

Also Andy, this rattling you mentioned... I'm assuming it's not loud enough to really bother anyone.

My backpack's got jets, I'm Boba the Fett. I bounty hunt for Jabba the Hutt to finance my 'Vette. - MCChris

irish_admiral · Post by **irish_admiral** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:19 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>this rattling you mentioned... I'm assuming it's not loud enough to really bother anyone <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>Not really... not that i've noticed anyway, at any sort of volume.

Don't tell me the best way, just tell me the cheapest way...

Andy H. · Post by **Andy H.** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:18 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Also Andy, this rattling you mentioned... I'm assuming it's not loud enough to really bother anyone.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>A little rattling if present, I meant, was often ignorable.

No, with healthy non microphonic valves, a nice and tightly screwed up combo cabinet etc it's not an issue. What I meant is that slightly microphonic valves can tend to rattle a bit, but unless it was too obvious this studio guy would just go for the warts and all sound if it fitted the vibe of the music. Proper R'n'R attitude!

You can make things too sterile sometimes, or get too hooked up on 'perfect tone'. When recording nice clean or bold bluesy sounds this guy would keep his owl like hearing tuned for any of that stuff, which he'd regard as a problem. But when the sound wanted was filthy anyway he thought it could sometimes add something to leave these little noises in there. And I agree, you've got to play it by ear. If it's loud enough to annoy, then do something about it! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

As Nick says, I'm sure that having the speakers nearby is part of the sound of any combo, often in good ways too. At high volume and/or gain, quite apart from loudspeaker / guitar interactions, there will be loudspeaker / amp interactions. Definitely!

Andy.

jamison162 · Post by **jamison162** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:55 pm

I'm gonna test out this acoustic-coupling theory and put my RV50 head INSIDE the cab and see if it sounds any better!!!!! Heheheheheeh.

animapersa · Post by **animapersa** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:57 pm

why are you bringing up a thread thats 4 years old...

Post by **bclaire** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:00 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by animapersa
 why are you bringing up a thread thats 4 years old...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

ha ha ha ha...

jamison162 · Post by **jamison162** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:02 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by animapersa
 why are you bringing up a thread thats 4 years old...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Because Andy posted a link to it in one of my recent threads. What's it to ya, got a problem with old threads??????

animapersa · Post by **animapersa** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:38 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jamison162
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by animapersa
 why are you bringing up a thread thats 4 years old...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Because Andy posted a link to it in one of my recent threads. What's it to ya, got a problem with old threads??????
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yea... they're ugly

kidding. nothing against them, and I was unaware of andy posting it. Bummed me out though because I thought alot of old forumites had returned and I kinda missed them:oops:

blackcloud45 · Post by **blackcloud45** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:20 pm

No problem in my old Marshall JMP. Years and years and years with no problem. Could be true, though... stranger things have happened.

Andy H. · Post by **Andy H.** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:36 am

Yep, all my fault!

:D

Old threads, new threads. Who cares as long as they wear well!

Talking of which...

Some maybe useful forum info for those who haven't already sussed it:<hr noshade size="1">

LINKS TO OLDER FORUM THREADS

Many links to older Orange forum threads are now dead.
You can still find the threads easily by just removing the letters 'test' from the links.
Example:

http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.php?t=15047

...won't now work.

Take the 'test' out to get:

http://www.orangeamps.com/forum/topic.a ... C_ID=15047

This is now a valid link. <hr noshade size="1">
I was suggesting to Billy that might make a helpful 'sticky' for those of us who like to look back, but he's either forgotten about it or stuck to his 'no more stickies' policy.

What d'ya reckon Billy?

Andy.

Are Combos Bad For Tube Health??

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