New Rockerverb 100 mkIII noise in dirty channel

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groundmeat
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New Rockerverb 100 mkIII noise in dirty channel

Post by groundmeat » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:34 am

For a long time I've been a rackmount guy. I was playing a Marshall JMP1 preamp into a massively heavy Peavey Classic Series 120/120 all tube dual mono poweramp (6L6 tubes). But I was never crazy about the sound. It just didn't sound like an all-tube head, it sounded like something that was trying to sound like an all tube amp. So I started hunting around for a head to replace it with. Originally I was gonna get a Marshall. I always thought Orange's were just trendy and stupid... but then on a whim I played a used Rockerverb 100 mk3 in a store one day and was blown away by how perfect it sounded. So I saved and saved and finally after a year or more, I hocked my other stuff and I went to buy the Orange of my dreams.

At the beginning of June, I bought a "blemished" but still "new" Rockerverb 100 mk3 from a Guitar Center. I brought it home, and started playing around with it. When I'd crank the gain up anywhere past about 55% on the dirty channel, it started getting a background buzzing even though the volume was still low and the attenuator was basically OFF. So I took the amp back to Guitar Center, and they didn't want to discuss how to fix the problem. They just said I could buy a brand new one at full price. So I did. This one was in black. I waited another week, picked it up, got it home... pretty much the same thing. I still can't turn the gain knob on the dirty channel past about 60% without a very noticable buzz that gets even louder the more you turn it towards 100%.

Is this NORMAL? I don't think it's normal, personally. I don't seem to remember the used model that I initially played with doing that, otherwise I would've noticed it, and it probably would've steered me away from wanting an Orange. I think I've seen on other guitar related forums, people saying that the stock tubes in Oranges aren't the best thing, that they're "microphonic", that you should replace them immediately.

I dunno. What should I do here? I'm pretty disappointed after spending this much money on an amp that I can only use it for HALF of what the gain knob claims it can do.

Hubaxe
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Re: New Rockerverb 100 mkIII noise in dirty channel

Post by Hubaxe » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:47 am

Gain always bring some noise.
I had the same issue and could efficiently reduce the buzz by filtering the AC power with a shaffner fn unit.
The other thing that works is to put a low noise preamp tube in the first stage of the gain channel.
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Re: New Rockerverb 100 mkIII noise in dirty channel

Post by Boy_Narf » Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:24 pm

If it didn't make this noise at the shop then I would guess it's either a part of your rig, or the power in your house. I used to live in a place from the 40's and the hum from the amps would sound like a helicopter some days (even though I had new outlets run to a new panel). I also rented a place back in the day which had noise downstairs, but not upstairs.

I would take the amp back to the shop and try to reproduce the issue. If the noise is also occurring in the shop exchange it for a new one. If it's silent then grab a noise gate on the way out :)

Are you playing single coils? With my HB guitars, all of the amps are near silent with only a slight tube hum. With my Tele/P90 guitars the hum is unbearable unless I'm facing a specific direction in the room and not too close to the amps. My noise gate sorts all this out. Perhaps fire up the rig and spin in a circle slowly to see if the noise goes away.
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groundmeat
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Re: New Rockerverb 100 mkIII noise in dirty channel

Post by groundmeat » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:49 pm

It isn't the power. The power in my house is fine. I ran my other rack rig from the same AC outlet for 15 years with no power conditioner unit in the rack and still had no issues at all.

Taking it back to the Guitar Center would be pointless. Before I left the store, I tried it out and noticed the same noise. I called the store mgr over and showed him the issue with the noise and his opinion was that it was "normal"... but it's my opinion that the little twerp just didn't give a crap about helping me, he just wanted me GONE.

Doesn't matter what guitar I use. I have a Fender American Elite with gen4 noiseless singles, and I have a Gibson Les Paul Studio with burstbuckers. Doesn't matter which one is plugged in, it's all the same.

The buzz sound is originating from the amp itself. Since the gain knob being past 50% seems to be where the noise is originating from, I'm guessing the problem is either preamp tubes, or something else having to do with the preamp section specifically. Because it seems to me that if it were the VOLUME knob in the dirty channel being the main variable and NOT the GAIN knob, then wouldn't that lead one to believe the problem would be with the power tubes or the power section? Seems like it to me anyway. I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to amps though. I know basic things like how different power tubes will sound (EL34 vs 6L6 etc), but other than that, I'm a newbie.

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Re: New Rockerverb 100 mkIII noise in dirty channel

Post by Boy_Narf » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:16 pm

First off if that guy treated you like crap, take it back so he loses the sale. Or speak with a manager and get to the bottom of the issue. If the manager also provides poor service get a full refund and order online from a reputable seller that cares about it's customers. Heck, there are tons used as well which would save you a pile. This is not a cheap amp, and you should demand customer service.

What was your other amp? And is there any way you could do an audio clip/video of the current issue?

You could replace the tubes but when I did my RV100, it was around $150 CAD just for the tubes. Luckly I had a bias probe, or I would have paid another 100ish per hour for a tech to swap+bias. Not worth the added expense for a brand new amp.
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Re: New Rockerverb 100 mkIII noise in dirty channel

Post by Hubaxe » Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:32 am

I wouldn't go on the power tube. Just change 1 12AX7 selecting a low noise one. It's around 20$ and it's always good to have some 12AX7 to swap.
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Re: New Rockerverb 100 mkIII noise in dirty channel

Post by adkguy07 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:49 am

Just to be clear, is the noise or “buzzing” you refer to noticeable all the time that you are actually playing the guitar through the amp? Is it like loud humming and buzzing combined. Or, does this noise only happen while in the process of turning the gain knob itself?

The reason I ask is that I have a Dark Terror now over 2 years since purchased new. It's gain pot produces a scratchy pot noise while turning it, and has since day one. It seems to lessen as the amp warms up and it only audible when activating the pot itself. The vendor could reproduce the same with other new Dark Terrors and summed their response by saying it was due to a batch of less than perfect gain pots installed in the amps tested. I use the amp all the time and the noise is still there, but as long as it stays as subdued as it is, I will leave it be. When actually playing my DT, there is no noise emitted save for a very low ac hum which I consider normal. When my gain knob goes above 50% is when I would expect to hear any background noise increase. I never have my gain knob more than say, 40% at the most.

Are you sure your issue is not a similar noise? If it's a continuous noise interfering with listening to your amp, then it should be sorted out by GC or take it to a competent tech to search and fix. If you like the amp well enough, it might be the most reasonable tactic even if it costs a bit more.

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Re: New Rockerverb 100 mkIII noise in dirty channel

Post by Boy_Narf » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:04 pm

Guys, the amp is BRAND NEW! Don't pay a tech, or buy new tubes.Take it back to the dang store and speak with a manager.
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groundmeat
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Re: New Rockerverb 100 mkIII noise in dirty channel

Post by groundmeat » Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:33 pm

There really ain't no "speaking to a manager". We can forget that option. I did that with the "store manager", the #1 guy where I bought it. He was basically a kid, looked to be no older than about 22, and he seemed to be annoyed about what a difficult customer I was being. The first "blemished" amp had a mechanical problem (not a "blemish", a blemish is a dent, ding, or scratch) because a wire wasn't soldered in the reverb tank. He had to take it apart and resolder that. Then I argued about the value of an item I was attempting to trade in, then I hand him a sheet of paper with about 22 different e-gift card codes for $25 and $50 each (which I get for doing online marketing surveys, it's all legit), and he was annoyed that he would have to key them all in individually rather than just having the bar codes of the things to scan (I don't have a printer at home). For these reasons, he obviously thinks I'm just one of those customers who insists on being a difficult impossible to please pain in the ass. So he ain't gonna help me. He's already told me the noise is "normal", so all he's gonna offer to do is perhaps return it and order yet another one (a 3rd amp), or more likely just offer my money back.

If it's just shitty preamp tubes, then he's right, that would technically be "normal" for the amp to be sounding shitty with the shitty tubes that come in it. But I've honestly never heard ANY OTHER amp get that noisy when cranking the gain knob even at low volumes.

I was kinda hoping someone else here might've also bought a Rockerverb mk3 lately and maybe had a similar problem. Figured this was the best of all places to find such a person.

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Re: New Rockerverb 100 mkIII noise in dirty channel

Post by Boy_Narf » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:15 pm

I'm very confused here. You don't want to get warranty service because the sales guy/manager was annoyed? How is that your problem? If you got money to burn sure order some new preamp tubes. I was under the impression UK Oranges uses decent tubes (Ruby/JJ). Are they using no name tubes now? It is possible however, that one became faulty in transit or on the floor though.

Perhaps as a first step remove all the tubes, and re-seat them.

I would still return the amp if it were me, and order from someone who knows how to treat a customer (or take it to another GC if you are uncomfortable returning). He is getting commission/bonus off your sale so. They would also have spare tubes in the tech room that you could test out (to see if that's the culprit). TBH I've seen some Oranges in the past few years that were lemons (hah). People associate the brand with extreme quality so they usually laugh when you say something is wrong, but an amp is an amp. Anything can fail in any amp at any time. Personally mine have been rock solid. I change all the tubes the second I take ownership, and never had an issue in near 15 years of owning them.

If things are not 100% to my satisfaction I return them now. It took me most of my life to work up the courage for this but It's my money and if something isn't exactly how I want it, it goes back. Biggest was a SG Junior last year. Neck lacquer was all messed up and the sales guy was nearly screaming at me about how I was being a bad customer and how he couldn't see the flaws (I have a feeling I screwed up his goal for that month, but that's not my problem). I now avoid that guy every-time I go into the store. He will never get another sale from me. My wife is a retail manager nearing 20 years in the industry. I know how things work, and the extreme amount of pressure that is put on associates. That said, there is 0 excuse for poor customer service (gen M&Z I'm looking at you heh) especially when it comes to a higher end item. My wife and I do pretty much anything for our clients so when I get treated like garbage by someone in CS, I do not tolerate it.

Another option is to call and ask to speak with the service department manager. That way you can avoid the annoyed kid all together.

Again if you can post a video/audio clip even from your phone we would be able to tell you if it's normal. I did a quick jam at lunch and as I turn up the gain, yes the amps really start to hum. If I turn off my gate, the hum/buzz is 2-3X as loud.
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Re: New Rockerverb 100 mkIII noise in dirty channel

Post by Phlowen » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:30 pm

If it's not working the way you want and it's a big enough issue for you to write about it here, why would you not just take your money back and order it from a better place that will actually give you customer service?

I am also confused.
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groundmeat
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Re: New Rockerverb 100 mkIII noise in dirty channel

Post by groundmeat » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:29 pm

Because the $750 worth of e-gift card codes that I mentioned earlier could only be used at Guitar Center. If I get my money back, I would only get that $750 back as a physical Guitar Center gift card, not cash. I can't use it anywhere else.

Again, was kinda hoping someone who had bought a 3rd gen Rockerverb would reply with either a similar or dissimilar experience.

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Re: New Rockerverb 100 mkIII noise in dirty channel

Post by bclaire » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:06 am

You need to go over his head and speak to a regional manager or whatever GC has. Or contact corporate and see what they say.

No matter whether you are a "difficult customer" or not, you should get the service and the working amp you deserve. Are you anywhere near a different GC?

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Re: New Rockerverb 100 mkIII noise in dirty channel

Post by Phlowen » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:36 pm

groundmeat wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:29 pm
Because the $750 worth of e-gift card codes that I mentioned earlier could only be used at Guitar Center. If I get my money back, I would only get that $750 back as a physical Guitar Center gift card, not cash. I can't use it anywhere else.
Ah yes. You did say that.

Well...I have an MKIII, but it's a 50. And that absolutely doesn't happen on mine. This amp is very quiet, especially compared to my TH30.
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groundmeat
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Re: New Rockerverb 100 mkIII noise in dirty channel

Post by groundmeat » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:15 pm

Took the amp to the Guitar Center in Atlanta, the main one for my state. Talked with their best "amp guy" who was on duty. We plugged the amp up among the sales floor amps to demonstrate the noise, but... it's the Atlanta Guitar Center, so there's NOISE NOISE NOISE always, and we really couldn't hear it. When I sat down in front of the cab with the guitar, I could hear it, but with all the noise going on (2 old guys camping out all day on the Fender amps using the place as a jam space, drums, other guitars, basses, people in the DJ area, it was nuts), it was camouflaged. So... he did a really swell thing, and he went the extra mile, and he grabbed a 4x12 with wheels from the floor, and we carted my amp back to one of the lesson rooms in the back to really hear it. He said... it was a normal thing. He also said he personally owns a Mk3 Rockerverb, and his does the same. He grabbed a Boss Noise Suppressor pedal and hooked that up and tried to show me how it might help. It did a little bit on the dead air spaces, but there was still that white noise thing just behind the notes.

Anyway. Did what was recommended here by people. Actually got some friendly help this time, and it seems like it's a "normal" thing. I dunno though. I'd still like to dig further and see what I can do with different tubes to at least alleviate SOME of the noise if it's at all possible.

I tried to get the guy at Atl Guitar Center to see if it was kosher with the 2-year warranty to swap out preamp tubes, but he never got a text back from the person at Orange he was trying to contact.

So if anybody from Orange reads this... HI! And is it cool if I swap out preamp tubes? NOT poweramp tubes. And not the two 12AT7's for the reverb and FX loop. I would ONLY replace the four 12AX7's for:
clean 1/2
dirty 1/2
dirty 3/4
phase inverter

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