Rocker 30 gain/tube question

Orange Amps General Forum

Moderator: bclaire

chachi
New Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:04 pm

Rocker 30 gain/tube question

Post by chachi » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:28 pm

Picked up a Rocker 30 head to compare to my AD30HTC head. I was expecting more gain out of Rocker. It has a little more than my AD30, but not a lot. I was hoping to run Rocker with no pedals. I run AD30 with OCD for boost/additional gain. With both amps set the same (including OCD), it's not a HUGE difference. The Rocker has more punch, it's a different flavor for sure. But without OCD I can't get the gain/saturation I was hoping for. Maybe this is just how the Rocker is, but I wonder if preamp tubes could be the reason?

This thread is on same topic and they mention a 12AT7 possibly being to blame:
viewtopic.php?t=50247

Mine has (left to right):
PM brand ECC83 / 12AT7 / ECC83
Output JJ EL34 (not EL34L)

Could I swap the 12AT7 around with one of the ECC83s to see if it makes a difference? I'd like to have a little hint that it will make a difference before ordering a fresh tube set.

northernguitarguy
Tiny Terror
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 9:59 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Rocker 30 gain/tube question

Post by northernguitarguy » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:39 pm

Methinks that 12AT7 is there to buffer the FX loop. Changing it is not what you're after. I think you either need to push it over the top with an OD pedal. Trying out another brand of tube might bring out some subtle changes (this, after psychoacoustics wear off).

chachi
New Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:04 pm

Re: Rocker 30 gain/tube question

Post by chachi » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:49 pm

No FX loop.

This thread has tube configuration, my 12AT7 is in V2 (ECC83 in V1 and V3):
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39607

From the thread linked above:
"just put a new at7(ecc81) in the v2 slot. cool change, less gain, more tone."

I wonder if that's why I feel like I don't have enough gain?

Jondog
Duke of Orange
Posts: 7132
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:16 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Rocker 30 gain/tube question

Post by Jondog » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:00 pm

The 12AT7 is not helping. Its not even the stock tube so whoever put it there was going for less gain. The Rocker has lots of gain, but it’s not a super high gain amp like a 5150 or even the Rockerverb. Ad30 has two gain stages, Rocker has three and the Rockerverb has 4. I’d put new 12AX7’s in which are rated high gain. You might look at a TH30 if you want more gain without spending a lot. Or get a Rockerverb.
Image

Ronnie Robinson
Orange Master
Posts: 3148
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 3:39 am
Location: In the beautyful North , UK
Contact:

Re: Rocker 30 gain/tube question

Post by Ronnie Robinson » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:08 pm

Could be changing to new ecc83s will help as long as you know it's a classic rock amp not a high gain one.
Orange AD30 HTC
Orange Rocker 15 terror
Orange Tiny Terror HW,
Fender elite Start, Gibson SG 61,fender telecaster

Previously Owned - Rocker 30
Image

chachi
New Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:04 pm

Re: Rocker 30 gain/tube question

Post by chachi » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:16 pm

It's weird b/c the preamp tubes are all matching (brand) PMs and the guy I got it from used it very little and as far as I know it was all stock. But, maybe not. From reading the other thread... if I put the 12AT7 in V3 it would change the overall sound of the amp... and in V1 and V2 it affects gain on Dirty channel. I guess swapping it around won't tell me too much - unless I swapped it with V1 b/c it affects the gain on Dirty channel less than V2? Meaning, I would get more gain with a ECC83 in V2 vs. 12AT7.

Is there that much difference in gain between a 12AT7 and ECC83 in this amp?

chachi
New Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:04 pm

Re: Rocker 30 gain/tube question

Post by chachi » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:40 pm

It just occurred to me that I have my AD30HTC sitting right beside it. I'll pop a ECC83 out of it and try it in place of the 12AT7 in the Rocker and see what I get.

northernguitarguy
Tiny Terror
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 9:59 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Rocker 30 gain/tube question

Post by northernguitarguy » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:44 pm

chachi wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:49 pm
No FX loop.

This thread has tube configuration, my 12AT7 is in V2 (ECC83 in V1 and V3):
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39607

From the thread linked above:
"just put a new at7(ecc81) in the v2 slot. cool change, less gain, more tone."

I wonder if that's why I feel like I don't have enough gain?
My bad. Yup, replace with an ECC83 and it should roar!

Ddjembe Mutombo
Orange Master
Posts: 1382
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:31 am
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Contact:

Re: Rocker 30 gain/tube question

Post by Ddjembe Mutombo » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:53 pm

I had both a R30 and AD30HTC for ten years. I retubed both of them from top to bottom. The R30 at 1 o'clock is basically the AD30HTC at 2 o'clock as far as gain. To be fair that is A LOT OF GAIN. After that it just gets loose. I've tracked plenty of beatdown riffs on the R30 and less is more. If that gain at 1 o'clock isn't enough, you are just using too much gain. If you are looking for a thicker gain structure, maybe you'd be happy with a more compressed sounding amp.
Monty

chachi
New Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:04 pm

Re: Rocker 30 gain/tube question

Post by chachi » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:05 pm

Made the tube swap last night. There's definitely a difference. I can see how someone could like the 12AT7 in there, but I prefer the grit/gain as intended with ECC83. I would also probably prefer EL34L as well. Now I just need to figure out if I prefer this or the AD30HTC.

Boy_Narf
Orange Master
Posts: 2436
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:27 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Rocker 30 gain/tube question

Post by Boy_Narf » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:00 pm

I use a Rocker 30 for post rock/hardcore/progressive metal and it works fine without pedals. Are you playing single coils? Try a higher output pickup.

https://soundcloud.com/modestnews/float

Fast-forward to around 4:50 and you will hear a stock LPJ into a Rocker 30 combo (no pedals/plugins). R30C has a standard JJ retube kit.
TT | R30 | R30C | PPC212V

PedalTrain2 | Zuma

GLXD16 | Decimate | FlashBackMini | ST1 | TimeLine | BlueSky | RangIII | DMC3XL | EX-50

www.scratchbuffalo.com
www.soundcloud.com/modestnews

Ronnie Robinson
Orange Master
Posts: 3148
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 3:39 am
Location: In the beautyful North , UK
Contact:

Re: Rocker 30 gain/tube question

Post by Ronnie Robinson » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:03 pm

chachi wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:05 pm
Made the tube swap last night. There's definitely a difference. I can see how someone could like the 12AT7 in there, but I prefer the grit/gain as intended with ECC83. I would also probably prefer EL34L as well. Now I just need to figure out if I prefer this or the AD30HTC.
Yep that's a tough decision, both different yet both excellent.....
Orange AD30 HTC
Orange Rocker 15 terror
Orange Tiny Terror HW,
Fender elite Start, Gibson SG 61,fender telecaster

Previously Owned - Rocker 30
Image

Ronnie Robinson
Orange Master
Posts: 3148
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 3:39 am
Location: In the beautyful North , UK
Contact:

Re: Rocker 30 gain/tube question

Post by Ronnie Robinson » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:07 pm

Ronnie Robinson wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:03 pm
chachi wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:05 pm
Made the tube swap last night. There's definitely a difference. I can see how someone could like the 12AT7 in there, but I prefer the grit/gain as intended with ECC83. I would also probably prefer EL34L as well. Now I just need to figure out if I prefer this or the AD30HTC.
Yep that's a tough decision, I've said it before which is better an apple or a banana.
Orange AD30 HTC
Orange Rocker 15 terror
Orange Tiny Terror HW,
Fender elite Start, Gibson SG 61,fender telecaster

Previously Owned - Rocker 30
Image

Ddjembe Mutombo
Orange Master
Posts: 1382
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:31 am
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Contact:

Re: Rocker 30 gain/tube question

Post by Ddjembe Mutombo » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:16 pm

Boy_Narf wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:00 pm
I use a Rocker 30 for post rock/hardcore/progressive metal and it works fine without pedals. Are you playing single coils? Try a higher output pickup.

https://soundcloud.com/modestnews/float

Fast-forward to around 4:50 and you will hear a stock LPJ into a Rocker 30 combo (no pedals/plugins). R30C has a standard JJ retube kit.
or a good clean boost to get that output up.
Monty

Les Paul Lover
Duke of Orange
Posts: 6770
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Derby, England

Re: Rocker 30 gain/tube question

Post by Les Paul Lover » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:25 pm

chachi wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:05 pm
Made the tube swap last night. There's definitely a difference. I can see how someone could like the 12AT7 in there, but I prefer the grit/gain as intended with ECC83. I would also probably prefer EL34L as well. Now I just need to figure out if I prefer this or the AD30HTC.

Yeap, the R30 dirt is pretty special. I bought mine super cheap intending to sell it on. But played it.... couldn't let it go!!!!

As for power valves, I've enjoyed both JJ and Tung Sol EL34 equally. However, I have some RFT EL34 in it now, and they leave the the m9dern EL34 trailing far behind. It's pretty transformative.....
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, Tiny Terror

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests