Dual Dark 50 or 100? "Darkness and Wattage" discussion

Orange Amps General Forum

Moderator: bclaire

Post Reply
dflipp
New Member
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:39 pm

Dual Dark 50 or 100? "Darkness and Wattage" discussion

Post by dflipp » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:44 pm

Hi guys!

So... I'm currently a buyer of a Dual Dark to "replace" my Thunderverb 50. Just waiting for the "right, used opportunity" to arrive but... I still haven't decided which one I'm going to wait for. 50 or 100?

Which one do you think will fit better for a "gigging workhorse"?

Which would be the pros and cons and also which would be the main differences between the two? I've been reading about the difference between the two regarding "darkness" and also I keep reading more and more (nowadays) that 100 Watts "amps are an overkill", while "back in the day" 100 watters were the "standard"...

I would like to hear your opinions on this. Any and all ideas and feedback are really welcomed.

Links, video or other interesting views about these subject, also. Thanks in advance!

Cheers,

caldurham
Rocker
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:48 pm

Re: Dual Dark 50 or 100? "Darkness and Wattage" discussion

Post by caldurham » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:54 pm

even back in the day 100 watts were overkill though most people from back in the day do not or can not admit to that. i ran a peavey vtm 120 for a long time. i hardly ever came across a situation where i'd need to turn the volume (post) up past 2 on the volume knob.

most times if you saw a show with stacks lined up in walls those stacks were unloaded and only for show. even slayer had walls of unloaded cabs. also 100 watts is not twice as loud as 50 watts, though most people think it is.
really no reason to gig with anything over 30 watts and even 15 watts is fine for giggin'.

this is a good video about wattage and live shows and why bands started using higher wattage amps, mainly because of the lack of front of house, which shouldn't be a problem for any decent venue ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IU1kQ1Mfsk&t=2s

in my experience people running high watters tend to piss off the soundman more than anything and then complain afterwards as to why their sound wasn't good. that and they don't buy him or her a beer or two! :mrgreen:

i think between the two you'd be more than fine with the dual dark 50 and atm that is my orange amp unicorn.

Les Paul Lover
Duke of Orange
Posts: 6807
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Derby, England

Re: Dual Dark 50 or 100? "Darkness and Wattage" discussion

Post by Les Paul Lover » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:00 pm

The main difference will be about bottom end and headroom.

The 100w will have more of both.
100w won't be all that much louder, but will sound fuller due to the extra low end.

Depending on what you need, you may not need the extra low end. In many cases it's unwelcome, as it means you can become washed out in the mix.

A lot of heavy bands love the extra low end, but it starts walking over the bass guitar frequencies (especially down tuned).
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5


Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

Hubaxe
Orange Expert
Posts: 824
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:21 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: Dual Dark 50 or 100? "Darkness and Wattage" discussion

Post by Hubaxe » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:23 am

Les Paul Lover wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:00 pm
The main difference will be about bottom end and headroom.

The 100w will have more of both.
100w won't be all that much louder, but will sound fuller due to the extra low end.
Exactly. Headroom and articulation are second to none with a 100W and a 4X12.
100w head often have the feature to cut 2 of the 4 valves, So if you buy a 100w you also have the 50W.
My taste is 100w to get proper clear sound and trousers' flapping lead tone.
Image

Les Paul Lover
Duke of Orange
Posts: 6807
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Derby, England

Re: Dual Dark 50 or 100? "Darkness and Wattage" discussion

Post by Les Paul Lover » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:14 pm

Hubaxe wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:23 am
Les Paul Lover wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:00 pm
The main difference will be about bottom end and headroom.

The 100w will have more of both.
100w won't be all that much louder, but will sound fuller due to the extra low end.
Exactly. Headroom and articulation are second to none with a 100W and a 4X12.
100w head often have the feature to cut 2 of the 4 valves, So if you buy a 100w you also have the 50W.
My taste is 100w to get proper clear sound and trousers' flapping lead tone.
The Dual Dark has different transformers to your TH100, and are voiced quite darkly.

Hence the issue really, the low end required by the user.

Otherwise, with Orange amps, articulation isn't usually an issue regardless of wattage.

You're totally right otherwise. With my RV50, the clean channel gets a hint of dirt earlier than you'd expect it. At 100w, it stays a lot cleaner. And it does sound a little fuller if that's what you need.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5


Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

caldurham
Rocker
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:48 pm

Re: Dual Dark 50 or 100? "Darkness and Wattage" discussion

Post by caldurham » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:35 pm

posted today. timely video on how much headroom you actually need vs avg power you run your amp at.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWmMsB0ITOs

i'd say if you're playing metal or overdriven rock the lower headroom is what you want, not higher.

Mystic38
Orange Expert
Posts: 521
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:04 am
Location: Mystic, CT

Re: Dual Dark 50 or 100? "Darkness and Wattage" discussion

Post by Mystic38 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:50 pm

I own both the 50W 2266 and 100W 2466 Marshall Vintage Modern heads...

The 100W version is the 50W version, but on 11..

It has little (nothing) to do with the output power level as even with the volume set to 4 or 5 the 100W head is better at all levels of gain.. so if its tone you are after then all prior comments related to articulation, headroom & bottom end I totally agree with and i would add transient attack to that list..
-Ian-

Orange Rocker 30c, PPC212 & PPC112, Fender DRRI, Marshall 2266
2012 Gibson LP Standard, 2001 Gibson LP DC Standard
2009 Fender Am. Standard Strat, 1999 Fender Am. Hardtail Strat
2014 G&L Fallout

***insert great photos of gear here***

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 89 guests