More Gain From Orange Rocker 15 Terror

Orange Amps General Forum

Moderator: bclaire

Les Paul Lover
Duke of Orange
Posts: 6567
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Derby, England

Re: More Gain From Orange Rocker 15 Terror

Post by Les Paul Lover » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:29 am

Mystic38 wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:38 pm


if interested, there is some online calculators for things like cathode bypass and decoupling caps.. and a very interesting blog type thing here..

https://robrobinette.com/Voicing_an_Amp ... pling_Caps
That a fantastic resource! Thanks a lot for sharing. A lot of bite size amp portions, in easy to digest format. That's got me some reading sorted!!!!
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, Tiny Terror

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

Cav
New Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:43 am
Location: The Alps, Switzerland
Contact:

Re: More Gain From Orange Rocker 15 Terror

Post by Cav » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:35 pm

I use a Horizon Precision drive on my Brent Hinds, it works well,adds gain, and is very versatile.
Give it a try if you can.
Current gear: Dual Dark 50, OR50, Brent Hinds Terror, Dark Terror

Past Gear: RV50 mk2, RV50 mk3, 2x OR15, OR80 2x12, OR120M reissue, TV200, OR50, Terror Bass 500, AD200 mk3, 4-Stroke 500, OB1-300, 2x PPC112, 2x PPC212ob, 2x obc115, PPC412

Moony
New Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:01 pm

Re: More Gain From Orange Rocker 15 Terror

Post by Moony » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:27 am

Les Paul Lover wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:10 am
I'll give you that..... true, there are less passive components in the tone path of the "natural" channel. (Natural really is a clever marketing name for a channel that hasn't got any tone control)

And I'll give you that too.... you can't hear the tone sculpting.... Because it's always there.... and it's been voiced in a way that really suits all guitars. It works for single coils, humbuckers - low or high outputs. It's a very good design for what it is - a single gain stage without tone control amplifier.

I have a R30 head myself, and am well aware of the qualities and limitations of this amp.
I'm also looking into modding mine to add an FX loop to it, and have looked at its schematics in quite some details, which is why I'm saying the the natural channel is voiced, with the usual array of resistors/capacitors filters, but with fixed, non adjustable values.
Hi Les Paul Lover,

I like the Orange Rocker 15 very much and maybe I'll buy one.
Do you have the schematics of that amp, too? I would love to see them and mod this amp to my tastes.
I'm fully aware, that they belong to Orange Amplification and you don't need to post them here, maybe send me a PM. I won't spread them over the internet, they would be just for my personal purposes. Would be really nice, if you could help!

Best regards!
Moony

bclaire
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17583
Joined: Thu May 02, 2002 9:19 pm
Location: Outside Boston MA, USA
Contact:

Re: More Gain From Orange Rocker 15 Terror

Post by bclaire » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:03 am

Moony wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:27 am
Les Paul Lover wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:10 am
I'll give you that..... true, there are less passive components in the tone path of the "natural" channel. (Natural really is a clever marketing name for a channel that hasn't got any tone control)

And I'll give you that too.... you can't hear the tone sculpting.... Because it's always there.... and it's been voiced in a way that really suits all guitars. It works for single coils, humbuckers - low or high outputs. It's a very good design for what it is - a single gain stage without tone control amplifier.

I have a R30 head myself, and am well aware of the qualities and limitations of this amp.
I'm also looking into modding mine to add an FX loop to it, and have looked at its schematics in quite some details, which is why I'm saying the the natural channel is voiced, with the usual array of resistors/capacitors filters, but with fixed, non adjustable values.
Hi Les Paul Lover,

I like the Orange Rocker 15 very much and maybe I'll buy one.
Do you have the schematics of that amp, too? I would love to see them and mod this amp to my tastes.
I'm fully aware, that they belong to Orange Amplification and you don't need to post them here, maybe send me a PM. I won't spread them over the internet, they would be just for my personal purposes. Would be really nice, if you could help!

Best regards!
Moony
Schematics aren't available yet

Moony
New Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:01 pm

Re: More Gain From Orange Rocker 15 Terror

Post by Moony » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:06 am

bclaire wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:03 am

Schematics aren't available yet
Hi bclaire,

thank you for your reply.
I'm pretty sure, that someone would have them, at least the techs who need to repair faulty units.
But I understand, that they aren't available for everyone.
It's a shame. I used to only buy amps the last years, if I have the schematics of them. It's simply so much more comfortable for me then changing things for my needs.

Best regards!
Moony

Les Paul Lover
Duke of Orange
Posts: 6567
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Derby, England

Re: More Gain From Orange Rocker 15 Terror

Post by Les Paul Lover » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:54 am

Moony wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:27 am
Les Paul Lover wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:10 am
I'll give you that..... true, there are less passive components in the tone path of the "natural" channel. (Natural really is a clever marketing name for a channel that hasn't got any tone control)

And I'll give you that too.... you can't hear the tone sculpting.... Because it's always there.... and it's been voiced in a way that really suits all guitars. It works for single coils, humbuckers - low or high outputs. It's a very good design for what it is - a single gain stage without tone control amplifier.

I have a R30 head myself, and am well aware of the qualities and limitations of this amp.
I'm also looking into modding mine to add an FX loop to it, and have looked at its schematics in quite some details, which is why I'm saying the the natural channel is voiced, with the usual array of resistors/capacitors filters, but with fixed, non adjustable values.
Hi Les Paul Lover,

I like the Orange Rocker 15 very much and maybe I'll buy one.
Do you have the schematics of that amp, too? I would love to see them and mod this amp to my tastes.
I'm fully aware, that they belong to Orange Amplification and you don't need to post them here, maybe send me a PM. I won't spread them over the internet, they would be just for my personal purposes. Would be really nice, if you could help!

Best regards!
Moony
Orange is pretty secretive about their schematics. They only give them to authorised Orange repair centres.

The R30 schematics are pretty widely available though, a member of this forum, Jondog, drew them a while back.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, Tiny Terror

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

Jondog
Duke of Orange
Posts: 7033
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:16 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: More Gain From Orange Rocker 15 Terror

Post by Jondog » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:21 am

The best way at the moment to get an idea of whats going on in the Rocker 15 is to look at schematics of the R30 preamp and the OR15/Dark Terror/#4 Root Terror effects loop/power amp/power supply. Won’t give you component locating identifiers, but will be similar layout and values and if your familiar with amp design and layout you can probably work out whats where.
Image

Moony
New Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:01 pm

Re: More Gain From Orange Rocker 15 Terror

Post by Moony » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:13 pm

Les Paul Lover wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:54 am
Orange is pretty secretive about their schematics. They only give them to authorised Orange repair centres.
Jondog wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:21 am
The best way at the moment to get an idea of whats going on in the Rocker 15 is to look at schematics of the R30 preamp and the OR15/Dark Terror/#4 Root Terror effects loop/power amp/power supply. Won’t give you component locating identifiers, but will be similar layout and values and if your familiar with amp design and layout you can probably work out whats where.
Thank you for your replies!

Look, I could buy a Rocker 15, look at the guts, the traces, the components and figure it out by myself. But I will not do so.
It's no rocket science and if Orange fears some chinese guys from Bugera or other companies to rip off their design, they can't avoid that, because there are knowledgeable engineers who easily can draw the schematics, too.

So what is the point to hide these and don't give them even to customers who are really interested in that? I love guitar amps and to see, how they work, which components and schematics lead to which sounds, I love modding them and that's a fantastic culture with a long history, maybe today they are called "guitar nerds" rather then "techs". It's a shame, that even you guys, who may be in contact with Orange on a regular basis can't get the schematics.

Just for comparison - I've asked EVH and Jet City Amplification in the past and they gave me every single one I wanted. I appreciate that very much and to me I call that a great customer support.

Maybe you could argue that there are lethal voltages in the running amps and they are not meant to be modded by not qualified people out there. Yes, you're right. However do we really need such avoidant prohibition? For me that's on par with the labels on a deep frozen pizza telling you to take off the plastic foil before putting them into the oven... :lol:

Best regards!
Moony

stargazer747
Tiny Terror
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:27 pm
Location: NY, USA
Contact:

Re: More Gain From Orange Rocker 15 Terror

Post by stargazer747 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:00 pm

Moony wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:13 pm
Les Paul Lover wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:54 am
Orange is pretty secretive about their schematics. They only give them to authorised Orange repair centres.
Jondog wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:21 am
The best way at the moment to get an idea of whats going on in the Rocker 15 is to look at schematics of the R30 preamp and the OR15/Dark Terror/#4 Root Terror effects loop/power amp/power supply. Won’t give you component locating identifiers, but will be similar layout and values and if your familiar with amp design and layout you can probably work out whats where.
Thank you for your replies!

Look, I could buy a Rocker 15, look at the guts, the traces, the components and figure it out by myself. But I will not do so.
It's no rocket science and if Orange fears some chinese guys from Bugera or other companies to rip off their design, they can't avoid that, because there are knowledgeable engineers who easily can draw the schematics, too.

So what is the point to hide these and don't give them even to customers who are really interested in that? I love guitar amps and to see, how they work, which components and schematics lead to which sounds, I love modding them and that's a fantastic culture with a long history, maybe today they are called "guitar nerds" rather then "techs". It's a shame, that even you guys, who may be in contact with Orange on a regular basis can't get the schematics.

Just for comparison - I've asked EVH and Jet City Amplification in the past and they gave me every single one I wanted. I appreciate that very much and to me I call that a great customer support.

Maybe you could argue that there are lethal voltages in the running amps and they are not meant to be modded by not qualified people out there. Yes, you're right. However do we really need such avoidant prohibition? For me that's on par with the labels on a deep frozen pizza telling you to take off the plastic foil before putting them into the oven... :lol:

Best regards!
Moony
I agree, reverse engineering is far easier than actually coming up with something original on your own. Whatever the case, even if they are as crafty to open one up dissect and learn from it, its arguably doubtful they will ever produce something of quality that can compete with Orange, so it that respect Orange should fear nothing. Regardless, everyone that wants to mod and see what more they can get from an Orange amp, I just hope they are careful that's all. As for myself, I am extremely happy with my Orange amps just as they are. If I feel I need that something more, I will at most swap out tubes to try others, a harmless little mod, or an external source, like an FX pedal or rack unit.
Heads: Orange Rocker 15 Terror, Brent Hinds Terror, Signature #4 Jim Root Terror, Dark Terror, Micro Dark Terror - Cabs: Marshall 412 Celestion Vintage 30s, EVH 5150 III 212 & 112 Celestion 70th Anniversary

Moony
New Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:01 pm

Re: More Gain From Orange Rocker 15 Terror

Post by Moony » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:05 pm

stargazer747 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:00 pm
I agree, reverse engineering is far easier than actually coming up with something original on your own. Whatever the case, even if they are as crafty to open one up dissect and learn from it, its arguably doubtful they will ever produce something of quality that can compete with Orange, so it that respect Orange should fear nothing. Regardless, everyone that wants to mod and see what more they can get from an Orange amp, I just hope they are careful that's all. As for myself, I am extremely happy with my Orange amps just as they are. If I feel I need that something more, I will at most swap out tubes to try others, a harmless little mod, or an external source, like an FX pedal or rack unit.
I would try every new amp with my personal standard tubes, which I have for testing purposes. But there's nothing wrong with JJs, which are in modern Orange amps, if they are selected ones.
And please don't forget the cabs and different speakers! This could alter the overall sound so much. Many people underestimate that, play their same cab over years and wonder, why they are never happy with any new amp. Cabs and speakers are as important as the amp itself.

stargazer747
Tiny Terror
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:27 pm
Location: NY, USA
Contact:

Re: More Gain From Orange Rocker 15 Terror

Post by stargazer747 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:51 pm

Moony wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:05 pm
stargazer747 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:00 pm
I agree, reverse engineering is far easier than actually coming up with something original on your own. Whatever the case, even if they are as crafty to open one up dissect and learn from it, its arguably doubtful they will ever produce something of quality that can compete with Orange, so it that respect Orange should fear nothing. Regardless, everyone that wants to mod and see what more they can get from an Orange amp, I just hope they are careful that's all. As for myself, I am extremely happy with my Orange amps just as they are. If I feel I need that something more, I will at most swap out tubes to try others, a harmless little mod, or an external source, like an FX pedal or rack unit.
I would try every new amp with my personal standard tubes, which I have for testing purposes. But there's nothing wrong with JJs, which are in modern Orange amps, if they are selected ones.
And please don't forget the cabs and different speakers! This could alter the overall sound so much. Many people underestimate that, play their same cab over years and wonder, why they are never happy with any new amp. Cabs and speakers are as important as the amp itself.
I'm with you on that for sure, I am very well aware of how an amp's tone can be altered just from using different model speakers and cabs. I use only 2 with my Terrors, Celestion Vintage 30 and Heritage speakers. I don't mix them up its either the Marhsall & Blackstar cabs with V30 or the two EVH5150III 112s with their Heritage. But I might try mixing that up one day just to hear how my tone changes.
Heads: Orange Rocker 15 Terror, Brent Hinds Terror, Signature #4 Jim Root Terror, Dark Terror, Micro Dark Terror - Cabs: Marshall 412 Celestion Vintage 30s, EVH 5150 III 212 & 112 Celestion 70th Anniversary

Moony
New Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:01 pm

Re: More Gain From Orange Rocker 15 Terror

Post by Moony » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:57 pm

stargazer747 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:51 pm

I'm with you on that for sure, I am very well aware of how an amp's tone can be altered just from using different model speakers and cabs. I use only 2 with my Terrors, Celestion Vintage 30 and Heritage speakers. I don't mix them up its either the Marhsall & Blackstar cabs with V30 or the two EVH5150III 112s with their Heritage. But I might try mixing that up one day just to hear how my tone changes.
I liked that EVH branded 50W Celestion very much, which they only use in their 1x12 combos. I had several requests to EVH, Celestion and some dealers, but there is simply no chance to get that speakers separateley. I wish they were regularly available. In this 1x12 Blackstar cab I liked a WGS Invader very much. If you want to try something different at some point. However it doesn't hurt to mix speakers and try several combinations. :)

Jondog
Duke of Orange
Posts: 7033
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:16 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: More Gain From Orange Rocker 15 Terror

Post by Jondog » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:09 pm

Moony wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:13 pm
Les Paul Lover wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:54 am
Orange is pretty secretive about their schematics. They only give them to authorised Orange repair centres.
Jondog wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:21 am
The best way at the moment to get an idea of whats going on in the Rocker 15 is to look at schematics of the R30 preamp and the OR15/Dark Terror/#4 Root Terror effects loop/power amp/power supply. Won’t give you component locating identifiers, but will be similar layout and values and if your familiar with amp design and layout you can probably work out whats where.
Thank you for your replies!

Look, I could buy a Rocker 15, look at the guts, the traces, the components and figure it out by myself. But I will not do so.
It's no rocket science and if Orange fears some chinese guys from Bugera or other companies to rip off their design, they can't avoid that, because there are knowledgeable engineers who easily can draw the schematics, too.

So what is the point to hide these and don't give them even to customers who are really interested in that? I love guitar amps and to see, how they work, which components and schematics lead to which sounds, I love modding them and that's a fantastic culture with a long history, maybe today they are called "guitar nerds" rather then "techs". It's a shame, that even you guys, who may be in contact with Orange on a regular basis can't get the schematics.

Just for comparison - I've asked EVH and Jet City Amplification in the past and they gave me every single one I wanted. I appreciate that very much and to me I call that a great customer support.

Maybe you could argue that there are lethal voltages in the running amps and they are not meant to be modded by not qualified people out there. Yes, you're right. However do we really need such avoidant prohibition? For me that's on par with the labels on a deep frozen pizza telling you to take off the plastic foil before putting them into the oven... :lol:

Best regards!
Moony
I don't dis-agree, but for now thats what it is.
Image

Moony
New Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:01 pm

Re: More Gain From Orange Rocker 15 Terror

Post by Moony » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:12 pm

Jondog wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:09 pm

I don't dis-agree, but for now thats what it is.
Yes, I see that.
However, if you get the schematics please feel free to contact me! :wink:

Les Paul Lover
Duke of Orange
Posts: 6567
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Derby, England

Re: More Gain From Orange Rocker 15 Terror

Post by Les Paul Lover » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:18 pm

Most fender amps are sold with their schematics.

I agree that Orange should be more helpful with their customers.

Should they help people who just want to build one..... that's one other point, hard to dissociate from the 1st one.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, Tiny Terror

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests