I'm not totally happy with my live / monitor sound

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mici88
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I'm not totally happy with my live / monitor sound

Post by mici88 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:30 am

OK, so I started gigging lately. We have a friend who is a sound engineer and takes care of our band (miking, PA and all that stuff). Problem is that I am not totally comfortable and happy with my live sound - tone coming from my Rockerverb / Tiny Terror (with PPC212, V30s) is pretty damn good, but what I hear on monitors and front of house is far from what's coming directly into SM57. It seems to be a bit shrilly, harsh and quite flat. I tried various mic placements, amp EQing and nothing seems to give me good result.

Is it normal that monitor/front house tone differs from amp's tone, or somebody is doing something wrong? Any suggestions are welcome.

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Re: I'm not totally happy with my live / monitor sound

Post by bclaire » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:31 am

Where are you/ how are you listening to FOH? Are you out in the middle of the room?

Mic placement is important but a 57 should be able to do it fine. You can always experiment with different mics but if a 57 isn't working, there's something else.

As far as monitors/ wedges are concerned, unless your sound guy has some really top of the line wedges, what that sounds like is always going to be different than what the amp sounds like. Onstage, I tend to rely on stage volume and no guitar in my wedges.

mici88
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Re: I'm not totally happy with my live / monitor sound

Post by mici88 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:49 pm

bclaire wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:31 am
Where are you/ how are you listening to FOH? Are you out in the middle of the room?

Mic placement is important but a 57 should be able to do it fine. You can always experiment with different mics but if a 57 isn't working, there's something else.

As far as monitors/ wedges are concerned, unless your sound guy has some really top of the line wedges, what that sounds like is always going to be different than what the amp sounds like. Onstage, I tend to rely on stage volume and no guitar in my wedges.
There is a floor wedge in front of me and its tone is quite bad. When I go out in the middle of the pub, then front house sound a little bit better, but its far from amp's tone. It's like too much hi-end, quite shrilly. Our sound guys says that "You hear (on wedges and FOH) what you give from amp" and I really can't agree with that.

As for stage, it's rather set low, so there is no volume bleed, we rely on FOH.

Can you suggest some other mics?

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Re: I'm not totally happy with my live / monitor sound

Post by Les Paul Lover » Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:28 pm

You really are at the mercy of the quality of the speaker in his wedges.

Same for the PA - just like guitar cabs, they aren't all created equal.
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Re: I'm not totally happy with my live / monitor sound

Post by bclaire » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:33 pm

In a pub? How big a room?

Bring up your stage volume and don't rely on FOH or monitors.

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Re: I'm not totally happy with my live / monitor sound

Post by Les Paul Lover » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:26 pm

bclaire wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:33 pm
In a pub? How big a room?

Bring up your stage volume and don't rely on FOH or monitors.

I'd agree with that. Also, bear in mind that you have no idea what your sound man hears. Like many musos, he might be a little deaf..... and usually the part of the hearing most affected when one goes a bit deaf is high end. So he might be boosting the treble quite a bit to get a sound he thinks is good.

If you like your sound better than what he puts through, try and discuss that with him. Not always practical with limited time before a gig.

If you can't get what you want from him, bypass his PA.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
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Re: I'm not totally happy with my live / monitor sound

Post by Ronnie Robinson » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:31 pm

Can you actually hear your amp when playing live or is it only through the monitor? ....it sounds like the answer is no.

Do you have a trusted friend who can listen out front , knows the sound of your amp and can give you honest feedback regards the sound the audience is hearing?

Can you ask the sound guy what eq he is doing through the PA?
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Re: I'm not totally happy with my live / monitor sound

Post by bclaire » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:47 pm

Ronnie Robinson wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:31 pm
Can you ask the sound guy what eq he is doing through the PA?
and say "Just run it flat..." and see how it sounds then.

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Re: I'm not totally happy with my live / monitor sound

Post by afjungemann » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:33 pm

Sure sounds like poor mic placement to me. Plus I have never been a big fan of the SM57 and would say it makes my amp sound exactly as you describe. The e609 seems more true to my ear.
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Re: I'm not totally happy with my live / monitor sound

Post by mici88 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:21 pm

OK, so a little update.
Our sound guys says that "You hear (on wedges and FOH) what you give from amp" and I really can't agree with that.
It is funny how some people try to bring us down, isn't it?

Yesterday it took me 10 minutes to mic my tiny terror with PPC412 and get a wonderful tone that blew my mind. Thing is I did it by myself, in local rehearsal/studio rooms, with no hi-end, rather budget AKG mic, just slightly off-center. I played through their PA (no EQing, no magic, just everything flat), even recorded some tracks with my Behringer interface. That's the tone I want to hear. Now it is time to show it to our sound guy and make him learn his lesson.

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Re: I'm not totally happy with my live / monitor sound

Post by bclaire » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:29 pm

mici88 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:21 pm
OK, so a little update.
Now it is time to show it to our sound guy and make him learn his lesson.
Just do it tactfully. Remember he has his hand on the Suck button....

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Re: I'm not totally happy with my live / monitor sound

Post by Les Paul Lover » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:44 pm

bclaire wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:29 pm
mici88 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:21 pm
OK, so a little update.
Now it is time to show it to our sound guy and make him learn his lesson.
Just do it tactfully. Remember he has his hand on the Suck button....
And he has pre-emptively made that point..... :lol:

mici88 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:21 pm
OK, so a little update.
Our sound guys says that "You hear (on wedges and FOH) what you give from amp" and I really can't agree with that.
It is funny how some people try to bring us down, isn't it?

Yesterday it took me 10 minutes to mic my tiny terror with PPC412 and get a wonderful tone that blew my mind. Thing is I did it by myself, in local rehearsal/studio rooms, with no hi-end, rather budget AKG mic, just slightly off-center. I played through their PA (no EQing, no magic, just everything flat), even recorded some tracks with my Behringer interface. That's the tone I want to hear. Now it is time to show it to our sound guy and make him learn his lesson.
Sounds good. I'll be looking forward to your next update.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
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Re: I'm not totally happy with my live / monitor sound

Post by Hubaxe » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:22 am

I never put any guitar in my monitor.
I had the chance to follow some stage sound training with an emergent band, here are the point learned and still applied with success:
The rule is to set a carefull stage sound just with amps, carefully oriented, then put only vocals, a bit of kick, and if necessary guitar for the other guys on large stages in monitors.
For the amp mic, if you know your best sounding speaker, and where to put your mic, just kindly let your sound guy wich spot works best for you, and ask your band mate to play your guitar/run a long cable to hear by yourself your guitar in PA.
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