Sooner - in the diagram I posted there is a wire across the bottom that connects the two lower speakers - I don't see any corresponding wire in that cabinet.Sooner wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:54 amThe cab looks like it's wired in series parallel to me. So no problem with impedance. Can't really tell if it's in phase or not from the photos. Need a diagram.
Edit: After a second look it appears the phase is correct too. Would help confirm if we could see exactly where the white/black wires go.
RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)
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Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)
Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)
White wire from jack goes to speaker 1's positive. Speaker 1's negative goes to speaker 2's positive. Speaker 2's negative goes to the black-stripe jack wire.
(Top pair in series.)
Parallel white goes from speaker 1's positive to speaker 3's positive. Speaker 3's negative goes to speaker 4's positive. Speaker 4's negative goes to the black-stripe parallel wire connecting to speaker 2's negative.
(Bottom pair in series, connected in parallel to top series pair.)
Series/parallel, in-phase according to the terminals on the speakers.
---------------------------
It's within the realm of possibility that the magnetic polarity of one of the speakers could be reversed.
It's also possible one of the speakers is dead. (In series/parallel, a dead speaker will silence its paired speaker too, but the paired speaker may still be healthy.)
So a 9v battery test is called for. Will confirm if all 4 cones are moving, and if they're all moving in the same direction.
(Top pair in series.)
Parallel white goes from speaker 1's positive to speaker 3's positive. Speaker 3's negative goes to speaker 4's positive. Speaker 4's negative goes to the black-stripe parallel wire connecting to speaker 2's negative.
(Bottom pair in series, connected in parallel to top series pair.)
Series/parallel, in-phase according to the terminals on the speakers.
---------------------------
It's within the realm of possibility that the magnetic polarity of one of the speakers could be reversed.
It's also possible one of the speakers is dead. (In series/parallel, a dead speaker will silence its paired speaker too, but the paired speaker may still be healthy.)
So a 9v battery test is called for. Will confirm if all 4 cones are moving, and if they're all moving in the same direction.
Last edited by Rlw59 on Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)
Billy, that diagram you posted is one of the several ways to do series/parallel. Both the diagram and D|C|M|E's cab are electrically equivalent.bclaire wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:14 amSooner - in the diagram I posted there is a wire across the bottom that connects the two lower speakers - I don't see any corresponding wire in that cabinet.Sooner wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:54 amThe cab looks like it's wired in series parallel to me. So no problem with impedance. Can't really tell if it's in phase or not from the photos. Need a diagram.
Edit: After a second look it appears the phase is correct too. Would help confirm if we could see exactly where the white/black wires go.
Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)
D|C|M|E's wiring is safer than the diagram.
The diagram has 2 pairs of parallel speakers, with the 2 pairs connected in series. If any speaker fries, or any connection comes loose, all 4 speakers go silent and the amp sees infinite ohms (open circuit).
With D|C|M|E's, there are 2 serial pairs, and those pairs are connected in parallel. If a speaker fries or a connection comes loose, 2 of the speakers will continue to work.
------------------------
There can be a teeny tiny subtle sonic nuance between 2series-in-parallel vs 2parallel-in-series if you have mixed speakers. But with four V30's it should sound the same.
The diagram has 2 pairs of parallel speakers, with the 2 pairs connected in series. If any speaker fries, or any connection comes loose, all 4 speakers go silent and the amp sees infinite ohms (open circuit).
With D|C|M|E's, there are 2 serial pairs, and those pairs are connected in parallel. If a speaker fries or a connection comes loose, 2 of the speakers will continue to work.
------------------------
There can be a teeny tiny subtle sonic nuance between 2series-in-parallel vs 2parallel-in-series if you have mixed speakers. But with four V30's it should sound the same.
Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)
That's what it looks like to me too. You apparently have better confidence in your eyes that I do...Rlw59 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:28 amWhite wire from jack goes to speaker 1's positive. Speaker 1's negative goes to speaker 2's positive. Speaker 2's negative goes to the black-stripe jack wire.
(Top pair in series.)
Parallel white goes from speaker 1's positive to speaker 3's positive. Speaker 3's negative goes to speaker 4's positive. Speaker 4's negative goes to the black-stripe parallel wire connecting to speaker 2's negative.
(Bottom pair in series, connected in parallel to top series pair.)
Series/parallel, in-phase according to the terminals on the speakers.
Sooner
AD1512 Serial No. 001
AD1512 Serial No. 001
Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)
Good advice.Rlw59 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:28 amIt's within the realm of possibility that the magnetic polarity of one of the speakers could be reversed.
It's also possible one of the speakers is dead. (In series/parallel, a dead speaker will silence its paired speaker too, but the paired speaker may still be healthy.)
So a 9v battery test is called for. Will confirm if all 4 cones are moving, and if they're all moving in the same direction.
Sooner
AD1512 Serial No. 001
AD1512 Serial No. 001
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Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)
Ahhh... I stand corrected!
Yeah, we should have mentioned the 9 volt battery test earlier!
I'm not a fan of the double wire connecting things - I can see how easy it would be to twist it and get the wrong terminal.... If it were me, I'd split those wires apart....
Yeah, we should have mentioned the 9 volt battery test earlier!
I'm not a fan of the double wire connecting things - I can see how easy it would be to twist it and get the wrong terminal.... If it were me, I'd split those wires apart....
Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)
So I just discovered something horrible.
I don't know how much of this could possibly play into my tonal issues, BUT for the first time since receiving the RV MKIII head, I turned it around to inspect the tube glow, thinking preamp tubes could be an issue, only to find this wire seemingly coming from the transformer wrapped around an EL34 and MELTING ONTO IT.
The cable is labeled "AUDIO ACOUSTIC HIGH GRADE OFC CABLE".... so yeah, probably the reason its sounds bad...
WHAT THE F*#K!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Either way, this is definitively a structural problem!
All this time I never looked in the head because it was brand new!
It couldn't be an electronic problem.
I thought the speakers just needed to break in...
Then I thought it was maybe a phase issue...
Then I thought "preamp tubes???"
And now I see! Someone left an audio cable coming from the transformer wrapped around a burning hot tube!
...I just wanted a high quality half stack in my life after 21 years of playing guitar... I finally felt like I could go crazy and splurge on something I've been wanting for years...
I don't know how much of this could possibly play into my tonal issues, BUT for the first time since receiving the RV MKIII head, I turned it around to inspect the tube glow, thinking preamp tubes could be an issue, only to find this wire seemingly coming from the transformer wrapped around an EL34 and MELTING ONTO IT.
The cable is labeled "AUDIO ACOUSTIC HIGH GRADE OFC CABLE".... so yeah, probably the reason its sounds bad...
WHAT THE F*#K!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Either way, this is definitively a structural problem!
All this time I never looked in the head because it was brand new!
It couldn't be an electronic problem.
I thought the speakers just needed to break in...
Then I thought it was maybe a phase issue...
Then I thought "preamp tubes???"
And now I see! Someone left an audio cable coming from the transformer wrapped around a burning hot tube!
...I just wanted a high quality half stack in my life after 21 years of playing guitar... I finally felt like I could go crazy and splurge on something I've been wanting for years...
Orange Rockerverb 100 MKIII [2017]
Orange PPC412-A [2017]
Orange PPC412 [2017]
Gibson SG Standard Silverburst [2007]
Gibson SG Standard Heritage Cherry [2016]
More than a dozen drive/Fuzz boxes.
Orange PPC412-A [2017]
Orange PPC412 [2017]
Gibson SG Standard Silverburst [2007]
Gibson SG Standard Heritage Cherry [2016]
More than a dozen drive/Fuzz boxes.
Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)
Really crappy dude. Sounds like that retailer you have been using is a bit sketchy (same place as your last head right?). I would just send the head back and look for something else at another store. Tell them the full story and you should have any trouble with a refund.
Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)
Thanks, man. I just can't believe how consistently the QC has failed me specifically. Its incomprehensible. I'm still kind of reeling from this revelation. Need to sleep on it, think straight and then contact the dealer. I was very clear and specific with the manager I talked to who guaranteed me this would be a completely brand new, never opened, never touched, straight off their shelf unit. This has to come down to Orange manufacturing headquarters QC. I can't imagine what else it could be.Boy_Narf wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:40 amReally crappy dude. Sounds like that retailer you have been using is a bit sketchy (same place as your last head right?). I would just send the head back and look for something else at another store. Tell them the full story and you should have any trouble with a refund.
Orange Rockerverb 100 MKIII [2017]
Orange PPC412-A [2017]
Orange PPC412 [2017]
Gibson SG Standard Silverburst [2007]
Gibson SG Standard Heritage Cherry [2016]
More than a dozen drive/Fuzz boxes.
Orange PPC412-A [2017]
Orange PPC412 [2017]
Gibson SG Standard Silverburst [2007]
Gibson SG Standard Heritage Cherry [2016]
More than a dozen drive/Fuzz boxes.
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Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)
Wow..... that's pretty bad.
I can't believe how unlucky you are here....
At least now you know what needs to be sorted. That sucks donkeys balls.
I can't believe how unlucky you are here....
At least now you know what needs to be sorted. That sucks donkeys balls.
Ant
Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5
Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute
Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5
Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute
Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)
Thanks man. I tell you I am freakin' stupefied here. I have always been unlucky with amps. Probably why I stopped buying new ones 12 years ago and just dealt with the ones I had. I never imagined this curse would carry over to a brand like Orange. I could buy Triple Rec and it would probably have pumpkins for transformers and cottage cheese where the circuit board goes.Les Paul Lover wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:11 amWow..... that's pretty bad.
I can't believe how unlucky you are here....
At least now you know what needs to be sorted. That sucks donkeys balls.
Here's a question: could this have done damage to the speakers?
Orange Rockerverb 100 MKIII [2017]
Orange PPC412-A [2017]
Orange PPC412 [2017]
Gibson SG Standard Silverburst [2007]
Gibson SG Standard Heritage Cherry [2016]
More than a dozen drive/Fuzz boxes.
Orange PPC412-A [2017]
Orange PPC412 [2017]
Gibson SG Standard Silverburst [2007]
Gibson SG Standard Heritage Cherry [2016]
More than a dozen drive/Fuzz boxes.
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- Duke of Orange
- Posts: 6821
- Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:08 am
- Location: Derby, England
Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)
The speaker probably not, but the transformer or other components.... it's hard to tell.
Got to go for warranty repairs.
That's then only thing to do here.
Got to go for warranty repairs.
That's then only thing to do here.
Ant
Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5
Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute
Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5
Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute
Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)
Looking at Google images, I think that's one of the cables that connects to the spring reverb tank. So a low wattage circuit, probably no damage to other components.
Could certainly play hell with the tone though.
Could certainly play hell with the tone though.
Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)
Thanks for all the advice, guys. I just emailed the dealer. We'll see what they say about it.
I don't think I trust them to repair it. They botched repairing my MKII twice. I'd rather have full on replacement.
I don't think I trust them to repair it. They botched repairing my MKII twice. I'd rather have full on replacement.
Orange Rockerverb 100 MKIII [2017]
Orange PPC412-A [2017]
Orange PPC412 [2017]
Gibson SG Standard Silverburst [2007]
Gibson SG Standard Heritage Cherry [2016]
More than a dozen drive/Fuzz boxes.
Orange PPC412-A [2017]
Orange PPC412 [2017]
Gibson SG Standard Silverburst [2007]
Gibson SG Standard Heritage Cherry [2016]
More than a dozen drive/Fuzz boxes.
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