Hello Everyone,
I bought a pair of Yamaha HS50M monitors years ago. I've mixed on them for a long time now, and read tons of forum posts about how subs are evil, and how subs will ruin your mix, especially in an untreated room. Well I got a a chunk of back pay from work and decided to get a sub. I'm starting an album pretty quick here, so I figured it was a good time. I got the Yamaha HS8S. It's the updated version compared to my older style monitors but no matter.
The speaker has some good weight to it. Mostly due to the MDF enclosure I'm guessing, but weight is always a good sign. I had it hooked up in a matter of minutes, and left all the settings at default. I have my monitors set to 0 and flat for all the controls (still experimenting with the 100hz cut off). I started with the sub at 25% gain. This was a really great setting to simply extend the low frequency response. Ideally you don't want a bass boost when mixing, so this is where I will be setting it. The blending between the speakers is impressive. I couldn't even tell there was a sub in the room. Just sounded like the monitors got "bigger". After a bit of listening, I bumped up the level to around 9'oclock. WOW! This has to be one of the cleanest low hitting subs I've ever heard. It claims to go down to 22hz and I believe it. It does a wicked job of producing the bass you can't hear, but feel. In the next room there was a deep vibration that shook the floors. Running my raw tracks through my 5.1 computer setup, and my 2.1 home theatre setup (very nice KEF sub), don't even come close to the sound quality of this. I used to mix on the 2.0 setup, then play on my computer speakers and home theatre to get a sense of the low end content. Don't need to to that anymore. I've already heard a few of my tracks that need some adjustments in the bass department. Amazing how easy it is to mix bass when you can actually hear it haha.
With the gain at 9'oclock, I of course fired up some bassy garbage music. Sub is extremely responsive, and seems relatively flat frequency response wise. I could hear each bass frequency coming out pretty much even. Really great stuff. This 2.1 setup is by far the best sounding rig I've heard in a long time (music and recording wise). I however don't have space to place the sub properly in the room. It's currently sitting on top of the 5.1 sub under my desk. Defiantly not ideal, but it still sounds amazing.
My only gripe is that it's pretty expensive for what it is, hence why it took me so long to get one. But as usual, you get what you pay for.
All in all, I would say a great upgrade. If you have a smaller set of monitors, I would recommend a sub. If you are already running 8"+ then you most likely won't need one.
P.S. I'm an amateur recording "engineer", so be kind
OT: Finally got a sub for my "mixing" setup :D
Moderator: bclaire
Re: OT: Finally got a sub for my "mixing" setup :D
Yamaha makes incredible products. I just actually sold my Bowers and Wilkins subwoofer as I'm moving back to Canada next summer. Loved that thing (tears). I guess be careful though when mixing using a sub: many of the listeners might not have one, or it might be over-represented in your mix because let's face it, we all have a tendency to crank the bass up once it's clean and punchy.
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Re: OT: Finally got a sub for my "mixing" setup :D
As long as you have other monitors or the ability to listen to mixes on other audio sources you'll be fine. My reference monitors are pretty good, but I always make a mix to go play in the car....
Re: OT: Finally got a sub for my "mixing" setup :D
As stated above with the sub set to 25% gain, it's barely audible. It simply extends the low frequency of the track. There is no bumping bass. I will do all of the mixing like this.
I always do tests on other systems, almost too much testing haha. I usually go through my ATH-M50 cans, my everyday skull candy earbuds, my home theatre, my computer speakers, my Sony bluetooth speaker and both of my cars. Sometimes I even run the mixes through some crummy laptop speakers to see how half of the world will be listening to it. All of these have different sizes of speakers, some with subs, some without, and I think it gives a good representation of speakers in the "wild".
What I did commonly encounter when mixing without a sub is that the low end would be way too high in the mix. I would have to bring it up quite a bit to balance it on the HS50M's, but when hearing it back on my home theatre, or car subs, it would always be way too loud and boomy. All of my mixes also seem to have too much snare. Usually I finish a mix, release it, then notice a few weeks later once my ears have settled down. I finished my second "for sale" EP and noticed the same thing listening back to it now. Just a quirt of the speakers. Something in the frequency response seems to stop the snare from cutting, unless it's really jacked up volume wise. I will remember this for next time, and be sure to keep the level a bit lower than I think it is. It's all about learning your speakers.
I always do tests on other systems, almost too much testing haha. I usually go through my ATH-M50 cans, my everyday skull candy earbuds, my home theatre, my computer speakers, my Sony bluetooth speaker and both of my cars. Sometimes I even run the mixes through some crummy laptop speakers to see how half of the world will be listening to it. All of these have different sizes of speakers, some with subs, some without, and I think it gives a good representation of speakers in the "wild".
What I did commonly encounter when mixing without a sub is that the low end would be way too high in the mix. I would have to bring it up quite a bit to balance it on the HS50M's, but when hearing it back on my home theatre, or car subs, it would always be way too loud and boomy. All of my mixes also seem to have too much snare. Usually I finish a mix, release it, then notice a few weeks later once my ears have settled down. I finished my second "for sale" EP and noticed the same thing listening back to it now. Just a quirt of the speakers. Something in the frequency response seems to stop the snare from cutting, unless it's really jacked up volume wise. I will remember this for next time, and be sure to keep the level a bit lower than I think it is. It's all about learning your speakers.
Re: OT: Finally got a sub for my "mixing" setup :D
Me too. I mix headphones, monitors and then car. I can't think of how many times I've thought I had the perfect mix only to realize it sucks when I play it in my car. I think part of it is you're concentrating on driving and less on the individual parts. So I think you get a more honest picture of what of the mix is.My reference monitors are pretty good, but I always make a mix to go play in the car
Re: OT: Finally got a sub for my "mixing" setup :D
Car stereos are never that great. If you set them up for your specific seat, i.e. time alignment, and balance/fade it can sound pretty balanced, but then the rest of the passengers won't get a great sound. We do our best to sit in the perfect spot while mixing to get an ideal image, but in the real world that usually doesn't happen. The couch and chairs in my living room are both off center, so we never get a "proper" image. Then you can add in road noise, and typically lousy speakers with a bump on the low end to make them seem not so lousy haha. Tough to make everyone happy
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Re: OT: Finally got a sub for my "mixing" setup :D
Boy_Narf wrote:but then the rest of the passengers won't get a great sound.
It's not about the rest of the passengers.
I find that the sound that I'm most familiar with is my car. I get the road noise thing but I'm sitting and listening, not driving.
You always need to do a mono listen too, to make sure you haven't accidentally flipped phase and a track suddenly disappears...
Re: OT: Finally got a sub for my "mixing" setup :D
Hmm. Never though about mono listening. Well allright! Something new to try out on my next mixes
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Re: OT: Finally got a sub for my "mixing" setup :D
I mix using near field monitors, then I run the mix through a pair of JBL Cabarets (two 15"s and a 15" horn) to make sure the bass is balanced, then I listen to the mix in the car. I would use the subs to check the bass after the rest of the mixing is done.
Re: OT: Finally got a sub for my "mixing" setup :D
I used to run through my EV 15" PA speakers as well, but they are currently in storage.
Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Might post a few of my scratch mixes up here for some advise.
Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Might post a few of my scratch mixes up here for some advise.
Re: OT: Finally got a sub for my "mixing" setup :D
Hey folks,
Just wanted to post an update on the Yamaha HS8S. Questionable quality that's for sure. I noticed it starting to produce a smell after a few sessions. I figured it was just the VC breaking in so thought nothing of it. It then started to smell even worse. I took it back to the store (still under warranty) and they checked it over reporting nothing wrong. Okay fine. Played it some more, of course more smell. Took it back and they said the smell was normal. Ok... Apparently ported subs produce a "wood dust" smell. News to me. None of my other ported subs smell. So I emailed Yamaha support they said "THE SUB SHOULD NEVER SMELL. SEND IT IN IMMEDIATELY". So I took it back to the store and they sent it to Yamaha. Got a call a few days ago and Yamaha said it was fine. They noticed a slight odor from the box but it's just plywood dust. WHAT THE HECK? Why is the plywood breaking down and stinking soo much? Then the guy says we also noticed the sub clips easily as it has no overload protection, so make sure you aren't over-driving it. I have the sub level at the second tick, and all the input sources set to 75%. The sub is barely audible but it's still smelling. I've blown enough subwoofers back in my younger car audio days to know the smell of a burning voice coil. I did not abuse the sub at all which leads me to believe they are poorly built, and don't have much headroom. Even setting it to the recommended gain outlined in the manual is too much. Anyway just a heads up. I would avoid this sub if you are in the market.
Just wanted to post an update on the Yamaha HS8S. Questionable quality that's for sure. I noticed it starting to produce a smell after a few sessions. I figured it was just the VC breaking in so thought nothing of it. It then started to smell even worse. I took it back to the store (still under warranty) and they checked it over reporting nothing wrong. Okay fine. Played it some more, of course more smell. Took it back and they said the smell was normal. Ok... Apparently ported subs produce a "wood dust" smell. News to me. None of my other ported subs smell. So I emailed Yamaha support they said "THE SUB SHOULD NEVER SMELL. SEND IT IN IMMEDIATELY". So I took it back to the store and they sent it to Yamaha. Got a call a few days ago and Yamaha said it was fine. They noticed a slight odor from the box but it's just plywood dust. WHAT THE HECK? Why is the plywood breaking down and stinking soo much? Then the guy says we also noticed the sub clips easily as it has no overload protection, so make sure you aren't over-driving it. I have the sub level at the second tick, and all the input sources set to 75%. The sub is barely audible but it's still smelling. I've blown enough subwoofers back in my younger car audio days to know the smell of a burning voice coil. I did not abuse the sub at all which leads me to believe they are poorly built, and don't have much headroom. Even setting it to the recommended gain outlined in the manual is too much. Anyway just a heads up. I would avoid this sub if you are in the market.
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