Rocker 30 circuit

Orange Amps Technical Q&A's

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Jondog
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Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Rocker 30 circuit

Post by Jondog » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:50 pm

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Last edited by Jondog on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:47 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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kell
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Location: South Germany

Re: Rocker 30 circuit

Post by kell » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:19 pm

Thank you very much!

Treble is still 25k in your schem, 250k is correct.
From which output tap comes the FB?
Finally, the power supply is missing. :mrgreen:

Wow, that's a long story. First sorry for my English, I am german. Yes, I comfortable with relays. I do service for my tube amps since a couple of years. I am 47 years old and play for about 35 years. I own some Marshalls, Soldano, Cornford, Fender... and homebrews. Next week a RockerVerb 50 will find its way to my home.

I know the tradegy with schematics. I traced all my amps where the schems could not be found. But this way it's easy when something must be modded or serviced. A good service tech is my friend and he is in business for more than 30 years. Also my father studied tube technology when he was young, so help is always around.

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about your amp and as you told there are no schems around only some spare gutshoots. It would help, if you make some pics and have a look at the relay labels. :)

Cheers,
Kell

Jondog
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:16 pm
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Re: Rocker 30 circuit

Post by Jondog » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:49 pm

Cheers! Your english is pretty good I'd say. It uses two DPDT relays. If I get it sorted out, I'm considering doing a handwired version of my Rocker if I get everything nsorted out. Just pull the board out and reuse th chasis and transformers, maybe add some customized features to it in the process like some circuits out of the classic Orange amps they don't use anymore. I think it uses two DPDT relays just for the location of the master volumes on each channel (each side of the board). I'm thinking I could get away with one DPDT relay if I built one.
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jason41224
Orange Master
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Re: Rocker 30 circuit

Post by jason41224 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:29 am

Jondog wrote:Cheers! Your english is pretty good I'd say. It uses two DPDT relays. If I get it sorted out, I'm considering doing a handwired version of my Rocker if I get everything nsorted out. Just pull the board out and reuse th chasis and transformers, maybe add some customized features to it in the process like some circuits out of the classic Orange amps they don't use anymore. I think it uses two DPDT relays just for the location of the master volumes on each channel (each side of the board). I'm thinking I could get away with one DPDT relay if I built one.
Hey, put me down for one! Or orange if you're listening, cancel your plans for your new Kirk hammer signature bad monkey amp/pc/tube tester/Katy perry photo album and make this instead! 8)
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Jason
Rocker 30
too many pedals

Jondog
Duke of Orange
Posts: 7111
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:16 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Rocker 30 circuit

Post by Jondog » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:54 am

jason41224 wrote:
Jondog wrote:Cheers! Your english is pretty good I'd say. It uses two DPDT relays. If I get it sorted out, I'm considering doing a handwired version of my Rocker if I get everything nsorted out. Just pull the board out and reuse th chasis and transformers, maybe add some customized features to it in the process like some circuits out of the classic Orange amps they don't use anymore. I think it uses two DPDT relays just for the location of the master volumes on each channel (each side of the board). I'm thinking I could get away with one DPDT relay if I built one.
Hey, put me down for one! Or orange if you're listening, cancel your plans for your new Kirk hammer signature bad monkey amp/pc/tube tester/Katy perry photo album and make this instead! 8)
Sure! I want to do it, just for fun. I can always pop the PCB back in if I don't like it.
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kell
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Location: South Germany

Re: Rocker 30 circuit

Post by kell » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:19 am

Hi Jondog,

sometimes it requires more relays than expected to avoid crosstalk between different channels. I exclusively use relays with one switching function. It's also a good idea to use metal housed items to minimize hum. In handwired amps it is sometimes necessary to shield the signal wires, depending on how much gain you use. Grounding the right end can be found by test.
Jondog wrote:...I'm considering doing a handwired version of my Rocker if I get everything nsorted out...
Yeah, that's the way how to do it :!: :D
When I'll get my RV, the first step is to capture the schem, as I only found the MK version but not the MKII. It's also my idea to build a handwired version with some tweaks. I really dislike print tube sockets and had problems with it in the past.

I tried to attach a pic of my latest rebuild but it failed – probably I need some more posts. :?: It's a one channel heavy dirty Rock'n'Roller amp with 4 gain stages but no CF, FX loop not jet installed. This one is inspired by Splawn QR and the RV50 MKI. I did it to test and tweak the lead sound, I'm looking for. Finally, the loop will be tube driven and this requires a chassis with more space inside, as this 1987X is too limited in any way. :D

Cheers,
Kell

Jondog
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Re: Rocker 30 circuit

Post by Jondog » Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:37 pm

kell wrote:Hi Jondog,

sometimes it requires more relays than expected to avoid crosstalk between different channels. I exclusively use relays with one switching function. It's also a good idea to use metal housed items to minimize hum. In handwired amps it is sometimes necessary to shield the signal wires, depending on how much gain you use. Grounding the right end can be found by test.
Jondog wrote:...I'm considering doing a handwired version of my Rocker if I get everything nsorted out...
Yeah, that's the way how to do it :!: :D
When I'll get my RV, the first step is to capture the schem, as I only found the MK version but not the MKII. It's also my idea to build a handwired version with some tweaks. I really dislike print tube sockets and had problems with it in the past.

I tried to attach a pic of my latest rebuild but it failed – probably I need some more posts. :?: It's a one channel heavy dirty Rock'n'Roller amp with 4 gain stages but no CF, FX loop not jet installed. This one is inspired by Splawn QR and the RV50 MKI. I did it to test and tweak the lead sound, I'm looking for. Finally, the loop will be tube driven and this requires a chassis with more space inside, as this 1987X is too limited in any way. :D

Cheers,
Kell
Awesome stuff! One mod I did to my Rocker was a tube driven effects loop. I was able to fit it in nicely, but it's a tight fit. I made sure to use shielded wire for the signal lines. I added a bypass switch for it, and its a really good loop that is very transparent in the signal. The other mod I've done you might of seen in my earlier photo of the board where I've replaced the stock caps with SOZO caps. They really sound good and do a great job of smoothing the tone out. I did a recording of before and after and you really can hear an audible difference.
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kell
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Posts: 16
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Location: South Germany

Re: Rocker 30 circuit

Post by kell » Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:50 pm

Hi Jondog,

how can I attach a file. It does not work with "upload attachment". Do I have to load it to a file server?

Aha, the sozos are not stock... :wink: Good idea!

Jondog
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:16 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Rocker 30 circuit

Post by Jondog » Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:58 pm

If you want to post a pic you have to upload to photobucket or similar and post as an img
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kell
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Location: South Germany

Re: Rocker 30 circuit

Post by kell » Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:04 pm

Jondog here are the promised gutshots of the latest. All mounted on a turret board:

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The upload seems to work... :wink:

Cheers
Last edited by kell on Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jondog
Duke of Orange
Posts: 7111
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:16 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Rocker 30 circuit

Post by Jondog » Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:38 pm

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Last edited by Jondog on Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Jondog
Duke of Orange
Posts: 7111
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:16 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Rocker 30 circuit

Post by Jondog » Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:40 pm

kell wrote:Jondog here are the promised gutshots of the latest. All mounted on a turret board:

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I hope, it works... :wink:

Cheers
Awesome! very nice work!
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kell
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Location: South Germany

Re: Rocker 30 circuit

Post by kell » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:13 pm

This one has a Bass/Mid/Treble, Vol and MV, Pres. and Depth, a 3-step gain switch and one on the back to choose 8Ω or 16Ω tap for the NFB. It's smoking... :D :lol:

Thanks, for your further art work, nice job, too! 8)
Looking at your schems, it should sound fat and chrunchy with a lot of compression. How does it clean up when you roll back the guitar Vol?

Cheers

Jondog
Duke of Orange
Posts: 7111
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:16 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Rocker 30 circuit

Post by Jondog » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:19 pm

kell wrote:This one has a Bass/Mid/Treble, Vol and MV, Pres. and Depth, a 3-step gain switch and one on the back to choose 8Ω or 16Ω tap for the NFB. It's smoking... :D :lol:

Thanks, for your further art work, nice job, too! 8)
Looking at your schems, it should sound fat and chrunchy with a lot of compression. How does it clean up when you roll back the guitar Vol?

Cheers
Cleans up excellent. I've been through alot of amps and this one is the one that stuck. This amp has it's lovers here and haters. They discontinued this model a couple years ago. Alot of people give the Natural Channel alot of flak because it's only 1 gain stage and has no EQ. But it's my favourite channel to use. It's all power amp break up when cranked. Very touch sensitive too. At home I run the preamp into the power amp of a 12AU7 2watt amp I have.

Don't want to trouble you, but if you got a minute, does this relay path look like it would work? Feels like I'm missing something. Just noticed to the top right pin on relay 2 should be connected to the PI path above the two resistors 45.46, from what I see on the traces anyways.

I'm not seeing why these need to be DPDT relays either.
Last edited by Jondog on Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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kell
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Location: South Germany

Re: Rocker 30 circuit

Post by kell » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:34 pm

Hi,

I think there is more than one mistake. :shock:
Have a look at this schem.
http://www.orangefieldguide.com/OFG_SCH ... sheet1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
... wouldn't be surprised if yours is similar to this – of course pure guesswork. :roll:

I also noticed, there is no grid leak resistor before R28 to ground (dirty channel). Did you forget it, or do both channels share the same? (Clean channel has R24/1M e.g.) :?: :!:

Cheers

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