Tubes for Rocker 30 to lower the volume?

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neilmac
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Tubes for Rocker 30 to lower the volume?

Post by neilmac » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:19 am

Hi Forgive my 'nubosity' but are there any other tube types that can be fitted to my Rocker 30 to LOWER the overall volume? i.e. not EL34's?
I have heard of people putting odd tube types in their amps to alter gain/distortion etc.
Or is there no choice
happy new ears and cheers
neilmac

2008 Rocker 30

GummiTZ
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Re: Tubes for Rocker 30 to lower the volume?

Post by GummiTZ » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:46 am

You can lower the wattage to 15 watts by employing a set of THD Yellow Jackets and EL84s. But it will change the tone, and only lower the volume a little bit.

Try an attenuator instead.

neilmac
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Re: Tubes for Rocker 30 to lower the volume?

Post by neilmac » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:34 pm

Thanks Gummi yes I had heard of these adaptors and having owned a TT i know halving the wattage does not necessarily lower the volume too much!
I have an attenuator which was a kit from US maker bit mo' music - will go with that
Interested to know if any other tubes can be used with no convertors - in the power amp or preamp stages and what effects they have on the sound and clean/breakup point etc.
My knowledge of tube behaviour is very limited

Thanks again for your quick reply

cheers
neilmac

2008 Rocker 30

a.hun
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Re: Tubes for Rocker 30 to lower the volume?

Post by a.hun » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:06 pm

Hi neilmac.

Is your R.30 a head or combo? If combo I really doubt that Yellowjackets + EL84s would fit. There is very little room between the power valves and speaker magnet. Anyway as you already know, halving the power only takes the volume down a little. (3 decibels to be exact.)

I have used a THD Hotplate attenuator with my R.30 a fair bit, but came to the conclusion that you are best just lowering the amps volume with its own controls. The master volume (Dirty channel) is about as good as you'll get without special circuitry such as London Powers Power Scaling mods. I honestly found very little advantage using the Hotplate with either channel.

As far as changing preamp valves is concerned, well I never have in mine. But while lower gain ones might (or in some cases might not) lower the preamp output the overall volume depends on the power amp section.

What are you trying to achieve here? Natural power section distortion at lower volumes? You'll only get that with an attenuator, but what you'll not get is massive big sounds in the room at low volumes. (However you do it the ear hears lower volumes differently from higher ones and the whole frequency balance shifts. Guitar amps at lower volumes, just like your home stereo, won't sound as full or impressive as when used louder.) What you will get though is very useful sounds from sticking a mic in front of the speaker at lower volumes. (To a desk for PA or recording.) A mic. doesn't suffer the same changes with volume as our ears do.

So what exactly are you needing here?


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

neilmac
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Re: Tubes for Rocker 30 to lower the volume?

Post by neilmac » Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:05 am

Hi Andy
Thank you for the comprehensive reply!

My primary goal is to improve or restore the amp tone with more high clarity and bottom end.

(output vol. can be addressed with an atten. as you say and is really secondary concern
- just thought there may be a way to do it with diff. tubes)

My R30 is a Combo and is about 4 years old and with the original tubes however..
The overall sound is mushy, middy, lacking low bass and clear highs
(the dirty ch. eq controls hardly seem to do anything anymore!)

So.... I am guessing I need new tubes?

At this point I thought maybe I could improve on the sound, get more clarity / clean
and perhaps lower volume by choosing different power and preamp tubes
I had heard that Tung Sol pre tubes 'removed the invisible carpet from in front of the amp'
and different pre tubes could clean up the signal i.e. less saturation
and that different power tubes affected the output volume

I had my own band years ago and now write for film TV so need to use the amp
mainly at studio or lower levels, with the occasional jam with my son who is a drummer
I love the R30 for it's '1 knob clean channel' into which I can feed my Eleven Rack 'to Amp' output
or use pedals, with the option of Orange magic dirty channel always there too!

Thanks again for your help and advice :o
cheers
neilmac

2008 Rocker 30

a.hun
Duke of Orange
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Re: Tubes for Rocker 30 to lower the volume?

Post by a.hun » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:43 pm

Well if you have had 4 years good use out of them you'd probably notice a nice difference with just new power valves. They basically degrade gradually with use and because it is so gradual the time you'll really notice the difference is when you replace old ones. Then it is obvious!

Preamp valves normally last a lot longer. (They don't have to work so hard.) But one easy and usually very effective way to change the tonal balance towards more top / bottom with relatively less mids is to use a 12AT7 valve somewhere along the way. If you wanted that to cover both channels I'd suggest slot 1 or 3 (1 being nearest the instrument input). If only for the dirty channel the middle slot would do that.
https://www.kcanostubes.com/content/pre ... lity-guide" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd replace the power valves first then maybe start experimenting with preamp valve swaps.


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

neilmac
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Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:18 am
Location: Australia

Re: Tubes for Rocker 30 to lower the volume?

Post by neilmac » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:47 am

Thanks guys for all your help and guidance, links and resources
- will be purchasing a set of Tesla Power tubes
and Tung Sol 12ax7's plus some AT7's and possibly
AU7's for experimentation

-another 'tube doodler' is born!
:D
neilmac

2008 Rocker 30

nlimbaugh
Orange Master
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Re: Tubes for Rocker 30 to lower the volume?

Post by nlimbaugh » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:07 am

Don't count out a good NOS 12AY7. :)

neilmac
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Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:18 am
Location: Australia

Re: Tubes for Rocker 30 to lower the volume?

Post by neilmac » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:20 am

Thanks Nimbaugh will try one of those too!
:)
neilmac

2008 Rocker 30

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