help with a recent switching pedal build...
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- Orange Master
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help with a recent switching pedal build...
Hey there!...
It's been a while, I know! hope everyone's well!
so i decided to try to build a remote switchable true bypass loop pedal!...
basically, a box, 4 jacks, a 12v input and a relay switch (vey simple!)...
im using a stereo jack to my guitar.. tip and ring being for the guitar's signal (hot and ground)..
and ring and sleave being for a toggle switch, wich has the 12v current running down the stereo jack
i can now turn effects on/off, in the loop pedal, from my guitar! (happy days!)..
i'm sure your all now thinking, 'great idea will' and you'd be right! ..
the only issue is, when i switch, it sounds like a gunshot..
i'm assuming (i have VERY little electronics experience, though high in common sence!) there is some way i can put a resistor somewhere in the circuit, to stop the bang when i switch between on/off!
i believe it would just be the same way you'd do it in a 3pdt footswitch?
Cheers for any help you can offer!
Will
It's been a while, I know! hope everyone's well!
so i decided to try to build a remote switchable true bypass loop pedal!...
basically, a box, 4 jacks, a 12v input and a relay switch (vey simple!)...
im using a stereo jack to my guitar.. tip and ring being for the guitar's signal (hot and ground)..
and ring and sleave being for a toggle switch, wich has the 12v current running down the stereo jack
i can now turn effects on/off, in the loop pedal, from my guitar! (happy days!)..
i'm sure your all now thinking, 'great idea will' and you'd be right! ..
the only issue is, when i switch, it sounds like a gunshot..
i'm assuming (i have VERY little electronics experience, though high in common sence!) there is some way i can put a resistor somewhere in the circuit, to stop the bang when i switch between on/off!
i believe it would just be the same way you'd do it in a 3pdt footswitch?
Cheers for any help you can offer!
Will
Will.
Bink wrote:Will you're a genius!!
Randy Bass wrote:For the record, mr_william is a genius .
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- Orange Master
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Re: help with a recent switching pedal build...
Sounds like a problem I had while changing my wah pedal to true bypass. I forgot to ground the input lug. It was such an unbearable pop to turn on the wah pedal that I stopped using it until I fixed it.
I would say make sure everything is grounded first, then if you still have that problem to start thinking about resistors. Is your toggle switch grounded on your guitar? Is the input at the box grounded? Those are the first places I would look.
So how do you use that toggle any way? I'm sure you could get some really cool effects with a rapid switching technique. Very intriguing!
I would say make sure everything is grounded first, then if you still have that problem to start thinking about resistors. Is your toggle switch grounded on your guitar? Is the input at the box grounded? Those are the first places I would look.
So how do you use that toggle any way? I'm sure you could get some really cool effects with a rapid switching technique. Very intriguing!
-Joe
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My mother wears army boots.
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Check out my blog - adventure, travel, and the meaning of life.
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- Orange Master
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Re: help with a recent switching pedal build...
well its in it's prototype statages at the moment...
basically, its a 12v relay...
rather than the 6 pins that a dpdt footswitch would have, it's got 8... the other 2 for running 12v round. 12v on, swich moves, 12v off, switch off...
i'm using a tt, and sometimes use a boost (tubescremer/clean boost/treble boost)..
and also use the volume on my guitars a fair bit.. so if im 'away' from the pedals when playing, i thought it'd be cool to be able to turn on the boost from on my guitar.
so i use a stereo jack, tip and ring for the guitar (so it works without using a stereo jack) and then the ring to sleave with just an on/off toggle. the 12v runs thru the jack lead (i figoured it'd be ok, as phantom powers 48v..)
everythings grounded as far as i know? (all the sleves are connected!?!)... i've tested it with a multimeter etc..
the toggle ISNT grounded on the guitar though (i'll look into that!)...
if i were going to go down the 'resistors' route.. i'd have no clue where to begin!...
like i said previously, i get by pretty much on common sence alone!
Cheers for the responce!.. i'll see if i can get a demo up somehow?!..
Will
basically, its a 12v relay...
rather than the 6 pins that a dpdt footswitch would have, it's got 8... the other 2 for running 12v round. 12v on, swich moves, 12v off, switch off...
i'm using a tt, and sometimes use a boost (tubescremer/clean boost/treble boost)..
and also use the volume on my guitars a fair bit.. so if im 'away' from the pedals when playing, i thought it'd be cool to be able to turn on the boost from on my guitar.
so i use a stereo jack, tip and ring for the guitar (so it works without using a stereo jack) and then the ring to sleave with just an on/off toggle. the 12v runs thru the jack lead (i figoured it'd be ok, as phantom powers 48v..)
everythings grounded as far as i know? (all the sleves are connected!?!)... i've tested it with a multimeter etc..
the toggle ISNT grounded on the guitar though (i'll look into that!)...
if i were going to go down the 'resistors' route.. i'd have no clue where to begin!...
like i said previously, i get by pretty much on common sence alone!
Cheers for the responce!.. i'll see if i can get a demo up somehow?!..
Will
Will.
Bink wrote:Will you're a genius!!
Randy Bass wrote:For the record, mr_william is a genius .
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- Orange Hero
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Re: help with a recent switching pedal build...
I recently added a basic channel switching pedal to my true bypass loop pedal. I found that there was bleed over from one circuit to the other, possibly due to sharing a common ground, creating a grounding loop. I ended up having to isolate all connections (input jacks, switches) of the switch pedal from the loop pedal and that took care of the pops and buzzing. I don't think you'd need to ground the switch that your using to engage your relay, but I can't say for certain as I haven't seen the schematic. If you are having a grounding issue, you can try placing a bleed resistor of about 1M on your ground. Good luck, very creative idea.
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- Orange Master
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Re: help with a recent switching pedal build...
as i said before, i have no knowledge of electronics hehe!.. just thought i'd try it and 'how hard can it be'...
i'll draw out a diagram of sorts tomoro and post it up, maybe help me elaborate on the idea...
if it works, it'll be a great addition to my band practice rig (dont take the full board!)..
just put a boost in the loop of the pedal i made, and turn it on/off from the guitar!...
Will
i'll draw out a diagram of sorts tomoro and post it up, maybe help me elaborate on the idea...
if it works, it'll be a great addition to my band practice rig (dont take the full board!)..
just put a boost in the loop of the pedal i made, and turn it on/off from the guitar!...
Will
Will.
Bink wrote:Will you're a genius!!
Randy Bass wrote:For the record, mr_william is a genius .
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- Orange Master
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- Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:25 pm
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Re: help with a recent switching pedal build...
it's a little crude...
the sleeve's are all sharing a common ground...
the relay's top 2 pins are for the 12v to pass thru, turning the switch on/off
the next 2 down are the fixed ones (usually found in the middle on a dpdt switch)
the next 1 are switch off
next 2 switch on
the 12 current runs down the stereo jack, into the guitar, which goes to an on/off toggle.
any ideas why it's popping? :$
Will.
Bink wrote:Will you're a genius!!
Randy Bass wrote:For the record, mr_william is a genius .
Re: help with a recent switching pedal build...
I think what you may be experiencing is a bit of back emf (electromotive force) because you're starting and stopping the voltage going to the relay's inductive coil. What? I know.
A good place to start:
http://www.howstuffworks.com/relay.htm
Basically, the pop, I'm guessing, comes from the fact that you're opening and closing the 12v connection to the relay. Because of the inductive coil in there, when you either try to put current through or stop the current going through the coil, the inductive coil resists the change. (That's why current lags voltage in an inductor, but that's another topic for another time)
This resisting change thing is when the coil basically says "I don't like what you're trying to make me do to my magnetic field, so I'm going to align myself THIS way to look like I'm not changing instantaneously". When that happens, the coil will actually produce a backwards voltage, and probably produce a pop.
Electric starters in cars happen this way, a big inductive coil is "charged" up by running current through it, then the connection is broken, and a huge spark comes to the right place in the engine (spark plugs).
I'm guessing you'll need to put a diode in there to prevent the backwards emf (think "voltage") from blasting your other relay contacts somehow.
Here's some sites for info and such, the GeoFX site is particularly useful, read the last 3 paragraphs:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/i ... ic=67705.0
http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/r ... _signa.htm
And way to use your loaf Sir Will, this is a cool project (I'm working on something like it )
A good place to start:
http://www.howstuffworks.com/relay.htm
Basically, the pop, I'm guessing, comes from the fact that you're opening and closing the 12v connection to the relay. Because of the inductive coil in there, when you either try to put current through or stop the current going through the coil, the inductive coil resists the change. (That's why current lags voltage in an inductor, but that's another topic for another time)
This resisting change thing is when the coil basically says "I don't like what you're trying to make me do to my magnetic field, so I'm going to align myself THIS way to look like I'm not changing instantaneously". When that happens, the coil will actually produce a backwards voltage, and probably produce a pop.
Electric starters in cars happen this way, a big inductive coil is "charged" up by running current through it, then the connection is broken, and a huge spark comes to the right place in the engine (spark plugs).
I'm guessing you'll need to put a diode in there to prevent the backwards emf (think "voltage") from blasting your other relay contacts somehow.
Here's some sites for info and such, the GeoFX site is particularly useful, read the last 3 paragraphs:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/i ... ic=67705.0
http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/r ... _signa.htm
And way to use your loaf Sir Will, this is a cool project (I'm working on something like it )
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- Orange Master
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Re: help with a recent switching pedal build...
your brain is big!... neil! gunna give that stuff a read, i'll keep you and everyone else updated as to how i get on!....
neil, if you've ever seen 'billy maddison' (adam sandler film!) when he wins the spelling bee, against that little girl and shout's 'I AM THE SMARTEST MAN ALIVE!'... you should maybe try doing this some time (not the spelling against little girls!.. that would be weird!)
neil, if you've ever seen 'billy maddison' (adam sandler film!) when he wins the spelling bee, against that little girl and shout's 'I AM THE SMARTEST MAN ALIVE!'... you should maybe try doing this some time (not the spelling against little girls!.. that would be weird!)
Will.
Bink wrote:Will you're a genius!!
Randy Bass wrote:For the record, mr_william is a genius .
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- Orange Master
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Re: help with a recent switching pedal build...
ok, i read that (i actually read the last link prior to starting!)...
as i said before, my knowledge of electrionics is pretty basic...
but i understand that it's building up a charge and when it changes, it's then makeing it bang...
(dc offset! i believe my old marshall dsl100 had this issue, something to do with them not settleing down at 0v)
so to prevent this, i need to keep the current running, around the relay when the switch is off... right?
so i need to bridge the power pins in the relay with something?! (diode? resistor? capacitor?)...
is this right, or am i way off?..
cheers for anymore help offered guys!
Will
as i said before, my knowledge of electrionics is pretty basic...
but i understand that it's building up a charge and when it changes, it's then makeing it bang...
(dc offset! i believe my old marshall dsl100 had this issue, something to do with them not settleing down at 0v)
so to prevent this, i need to keep the current running, around the relay when the switch is off... right?
so i need to bridge the power pins in the relay with something?! (diode? resistor? capacitor?)...
is this right, or am i way off?..
cheers for anymore help offered guys!
Will
Will.
Bink wrote:Will you're a genius!!
Randy Bass wrote:For the record, mr_william is a genius .
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- Orange Master
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Re: help with a recent switching pedal build...
http://www.rentron.com/PicBasic/relay-circuit.gif
Yeah try a diode across the relay coil (switch trigger as you describe it on your diagram) with the band on the diode connecting to the V+
If u imagine on this circuit above link here its just the same but you are doing the job of the transistor with the switch on your guitar.
Paul.
Yeah try a diode across the relay coil (switch trigger as you describe it on your diagram) with the band on the diode connecting to the V+
If u imagine on this circuit above link here its just the same but you are doing the job of the transistor with the switch on your guitar.
Paul.
Re: help with a recent switching pedal build...
Yup, like Paul says, I means that you're going to want to use a diode to prevent the current flowing when/where you don't want. Try it, and let us know how you get on.
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- Orange Master
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Re: help with a recent switching pedal build...
cheers guys, i'll report back when i've modded it!
Will.
Bink wrote:Will you're a genius!!
Randy Bass wrote:For the record, mr_william is a genius .
Re: help with a recent switching pedal build...
FET-switching like you see in Boss effects pedals generally provides noiseless switching.
Boss isn't TB though but perhaps one could modify the basic flip-flop schem:
http://www.bossarea.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1036
In addition, check out Jack Deville clickless TB switches:
http://www.jackdeville.com/clickless_switch.php
Boss isn't TB though but perhaps one could modify the basic flip-flop schem:
http://www.bossarea.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1036
In addition, check out Jack Deville clickless TB switches:
http://www.jackdeville.com/clickless_switch.php
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Re: help with a recent switching pedal build...
ok, tried a diode across the relay coil!...
it reduced the pop took out a lot of the harsh high end of the pop...
i thought it could have been the switch on the guitar being amplified by the pickups, but i turned the volume off.. and it remained...
so the pop is reduced, and the harsh high end has been taken out... (with the introduction of the diode!)..
but theres still a pop!...
im gunna check the whole thing through, make sure things are as neat as possible! (it was origionally thrown together, as it's more of a prototype than anything else! :$..)
i'll report back again when changes are made!
it reduced the pop took out a lot of the harsh high end of the pop...
i thought it could have been the switch on the guitar being amplified by the pickups, but i turned the volume off.. and it remained...
so the pop is reduced, and the harsh high end has been taken out... (with the introduction of the diode!)..
but theres still a pop!...
im gunna check the whole thing through, make sure things are as neat as possible! (it was origionally thrown together, as it's more of a prototype than anything else! :$..)
i'll report back again when changes are made!
Will.
Bink wrote:Will you're a genius!!
Randy Bass wrote:For the record, mr_william is a genius .
-
- Orange Master
- Posts: 2986
- Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:25 pm
- Location: Sheffield, England
Re: help with a recent switching pedal build...
ok, the diode helps a lot!...
things are a bit neater in there, and its not so thrown together!...
i tried it thru the orange (for the 1st time!)..
and the pop isnt as loud as on the practice amp (suggests the cheepo transistor amp has issues! - it does pop a lot when turned on/off..)
but there is still a small pop when switched...
it's easier to live with, and proberbly wouldnt be audiable in a band mix.. but i do think if i keep going with it, it'll be 'studio quiet'...
how are these 1 meg resistors used in the standard 3pdt footswitches?..
i think that will be my next port of call!..
things are a bit neater in there, and its not so thrown together!...
i tried it thru the orange (for the 1st time!)..
and the pop isnt as loud as on the practice amp (suggests the cheepo transistor amp has issues! - it does pop a lot when turned on/off..)
but there is still a small pop when switched...
it's easier to live with, and proberbly wouldnt be audiable in a band mix.. but i do think if i keep going with it, it'll be 'studio quiet'...
how are these 1 meg resistors used in the standard 3pdt footswitches?..
i think that will be my next port of call!..
Will.
Bink wrote:Will you're a genius!!
Randy Bass wrote:For the record, mr_william is a genius .
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