My PPC 412 cab

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mrbroc
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My PPC 412 cab

Post by mrbroc » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:16 am

So ive been doing research on my cab and amps etc, and i see that regular PPC412 cabs are wired for 16ohms, and that if you wanted the second output on the back is for connecting a second cab to make it an 8ohm load.

But the info on my amp says its wired for 8ohm rated at 120watts, when regular are 16ohm rated for 240watts, so now im completly lost, and ive also tried to take the back off to see the speakers but its stuck xD

mrbroc
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Re: My PPC 412 cab

Post by mrbroc » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:33 am

So i finally got it open...

Its got 4 FANE speakers, 12inches each rated at 30watts, so if my jargen is correct, they have it wired in series?? to make it a 120watt 8ohm load?? also it looks like they saudered the wires to both inputs so either one is just 8ohms, meaning i can pick whichever input correct??

bclaire
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Re: My PPC 412 cab

Post by bclaire » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:54 pm

New cab or old? Two jacks on the back?

Never heard of an Orange 4X12 that wasn't 16 ohm. Weird. It should be wired so you could use either jack as the connection from the head with the other jack to go to a second cabinet daisy-chained.

As such, if all four speakers are 16 ohm then it should be wired:

Image

If all four speakers are 8 ohms, then yes, it's an 8 ohm cab if wired like this. Maybe someone custom ordered it that way from the factory.

Did you buy it new or used?

and where are you located?

a.hun
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Re: My PPC 412 cab

Post by a.hun » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:45 pm

mrbroc wrote:So i finally got it open...

Its got 4 FANE speakers, 12inches each rated at 30watts, so if my jargon is correct, they have it wired in series?? to make it a 120watt 8ohm load?? also it looks like they soldered the wires to both inputs so either one is just 8ohms, meaning i can pick whichever input correct??
That would suggest either an unusual vintage cab or one which has had replacement speakers fitted. But yeah, what impedance (if any) is marked on the Fanes, and how are they wired up. The various wiring possibilities are all pictured here:
http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/spkr_wiring.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The "4 Speakers - Series/Parallel Wiring; In Phase" wiring is pretty standard for most 4x12 cabs , and if you have that then the total cab impedance is exactly the same as each speakers indivdual impendance as long as they are all the same!
bclaire wrote:Never heard of an Orange 4X12 that wasn't 16 ohm. Weird.

and where are you located?
The current 400W HP8 cab is basically an 8 ohm cab Billy. (8 ohms mono, 2 x 16 ohms stereo)! :wink:

Yeah, always handy to put your location on your profile mrbroc. Fanes are most often seen in UK amps / cabs for example, but not usually in Orange ones, though I believe they were sometimes factory fitted to Orange cabs. Much more often found in Hiwatt cabs, Orange ones with Fanes as standard would be relatively rare with 8 ohm ones rarer still. 16 ohms capable amps tended to be a more UK thing, 8 ohms ones more often a US thing...


Andy.

Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

mrbroc
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Re: My PPC 412 cab

Post by mrbroc » Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:33 pm

Well its got some wear n tear so id say a few years old but still modern, and it has 2 jacks on the back, i did get it used from Guitar Center San Marcos and im located in escondido ca.

I'll attach a pic of how its wired.


Image

bclaire
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Re: My PPC 412 cab

Post by bclaire » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:03 pm

Can you get a picture of the inside? Not sure where red black and dark gray are connected in your diagram.

If it was mine, I'd rewire it the same as the picture above. Any luck reading the ohms off the speakers?

a.hun
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Re: My PPC 412 cab

Post by a.hun » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:04 pm

Sorry, can't tell anything from that pic. You need to show exactly where the connecting wires go, +ve or -ve speaker connections. As on both Billy's diagram and that page I linked to.

Edit: Yeah or a decent quality pic of the insides as Billy just said.


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

mrbroc
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Re: My PPC 412 cab

Post by mrbroc » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:23 pm

Alright here we go.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

:mrgreen:

a.hun
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Re: My PPC 412 cab

Post by a.hun » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:46 am

That is parallel-series wired (as opposed to series-parallel)

Image

The two don't sound exactly the same.
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpo ... ostcount=4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Overall impedance is exactly the same as series parallel though, so an 8 ohm cab.

Bit hard to tell from the pics but it looks to me as if the soldering job isn't very good. Someone has simply soldered those push on spade connectors. If it was my cab I'd lose the spades and simply solder the bare wires themselves to the speaker tabs. If your soldering isn't good then get a tech to do it for you - a quick and simple job which will make things nice and safe for your amp.


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

mrbroc
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:02 am
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Re: My PPC 412 cab

Post by mrbroc » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:50 pm

Thanks andy, Ill have a friend redo the saudering on it so it wont blow up haha

Also, does anyone know when the new Jim Root Signature #4 Head comes out?? it looks so awesome!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Emilio Estevez
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Re: My PPC 412 cab

Post by Emilio Estevez » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:16 pm

Hi and sorry for the bump but since I couldn't find the answer to my question (and I didn't want to create a new topic) I'm gonna ask it here :

I own a PPC412 240W V30 and I have ordered a PPC412HP 400W to match my TV200. I wanted to know if it will be possible to paired them and create a fullstack ? 240W impedance is 16ohms vs the 8/4 ohms for the 400W. I'm a real noob when it comes to impedance so I just want to make sure I won't blow anything!


Thanks !


- Phil

a.hun
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Re: My PPC 412 cab

Post by a.hun » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:24 am

Emilio Estevez wrote:Hi and sorry for the bump but since I couldn't find the answer to my question (and I didn't want to create a new topic) I'm gonna ask it here :

I own a PPC412 240W V30 and I have ordered a PPC412HP 400W to match my TV200. I wanted to know if it will be possible to paired them and create a fullstack ? 240W impedance is 16ohms vs the 8/4 ohms for the 400W. I'm a real noob when it comes to impedance so I just want to make sure I won't blow anything!


Thanks !


- Phil
Hi Phil. You might have been better starting a new thread in the tech section, but never mind...

Well that's not ideal I'm afraid. You can only correctly impedance match two cabs if they are the same impedance!

Also the impedances available with the TV200 depend on power mode:
hero (http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17570 wrote:...the 4X12HP has one 8ohm mono input(400W) and one 16ohm stereo input(200W left, and 200W right)
The Thunderverb has 2x 4ohm outputs (@200W) and 2x 8ohm outputs (@200W). these change to 2x 8ohm and 2x 16ohm, when you run the amp at only 100W (using a switch at the back).
If you run the 412HP at 8 ohms mono along with the 16 ohms PPC412 the combined impedance will be 5.333 ohms. Bearing in mind that you can't use the different impedance outputs of an amp at the same time, (ie 8 ohms only or 16 ohms only, not one of each), your only real options are to run that total combined 5.33 ohms load from the two 8 ohms outputs:

A -- 8 ohms output --> cab 1
M
P -- 8 ohms output --> cab 2

(At least you can do that at either power option, but make very make sure always to use the right outputs as indicated on the back of the amp or you might cause damage!)

A 5.33 ohms load from an 8 ohms output is a moderate low direction impedance mismatch which while fairly safe for the amp will both lower the amps total power output slightly (probably not audibly - you'll still be louder due to the second cab) while changing the tone slightly too. It'll also cause a bit more wear than normal to the power valves.

However most healthy amps with good transformers and strong power valves will tolerate an impedance mismatch in the range between half and double the correct matching impedance. And since it is safer (FOR THE AMP!) to run a low direction mismatch than a high one, apart from decreased valve life you shouldn't have any real trouble.
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpo ... ostcount=6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As I say though running matched amp / speaker load impedances is always better. Your gear, your own risk...


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

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