Question Regarding PPC212 Closed Back Cabinet

[fender126]

I want to preface my question by saying that I am new to the forum and Orange gear but really excited to be on board. I just recently purchased two (2) used PPC212 closed back cabinets to replace my Marshall 1960AC. I am so pleased with the cabinets that I'm speechless. I currently use one or both with my live rig which consists of an Eleven Rack, amongst other pieces. My wish list contains a Rockerverb 50 for the future.

Here's my question: One of the cabinets (CAB-A) that I purchased is only a few months old and in mint condition. The other cabinet (CAB-B) is a little more used but still in good shape; however, there are some noticeable differences between the two. The most notable is the speaker jack plate on the rear of CAB-B. My suspicion is that this may not be the original and was hoping someone could tell me if it is or not. The speakers inside are the same for both, but the wiring in cab B seems like a smaller guage and is not the same as CAB-A. Also, CAB-B does not have the horizontal wood arm inside that runs from front to back. I enclosed some pictures for reference. I could not locate anything on the inside of CAB-B to indicate a manufacture date and the is no serial number on the sticker. Regardless of the potential aftermarket speaker jack and wiring, I played CA-B tonight and it did sound great. Any comments would be appreciated. Thank you.

[a.hun]

Hi fender126. Welcome here!

Yeah good choice. These are great cabs!

Looks like the cab A was made in England, cab B in the US.

Not sure if the wiring or that cracked jack plate are original or not, but cab A is better wired up right now. For a start the wires are properly soldered to the speaker whereas cab B just has the push on 'spade' connectors which I loathe. Easy job to simply remove the spades from cab B and properly solder the wires. (Just ask a friend if you aren't confident soldering.)

I'd personally use slightly thicker guage wire myself - mains cable is ideal. Also no need for the wire connecting the two speakers to be so long. Either way though I'd definitely solder the connections as
1. those spades can sometimes work loose with the vibrations which could potentially trash a valve amps output transformer if you were playing loud at the time and
2. you'll get a better electrical connection anyway. Like I say I HATE those clip on spades!!!

If you wanted to replace the jack panel (which has clearly been overtightened causing the splitting) I'd just do that at the same time. It is likely a standard sized part - not sure on that but I'd think a suitably robust replacemnt should be easy enough to track down.

As for the wooden center brace I've heard of Orange cabs old and new with and without them. They are mainly designed to cut down resonances both in the speaker baffle and (mainly) the cabs back panel. But sometimes those resonances can add a more interesting more complex sound. If you aren't noticing any nasty rattles in the cab without one and like the sounds fine I really wouldn't worry about it.

Nice cabs!


Andy.

[Randy Bass]

I think the jack plate on the older cab is original, and the cracks suggest that someone has messed about the inside of the cab at some point. I think it's more likely that the wiring and speakers are not original to the cab. It may have originally been an Eminence-loaded cab that got "upgraded" to Vintage 30s by a previous owner. The speakers should have a date code to tell you how old they are, but they do appear to be the newer PRC-made Vintage 30s. It's too bad the ink on the back label of the cab got wiped away, as it could tell you if the cab is older than the speakers. It's probably at least three or four years old anyhow.

[fender126]

Hi fender126. Welcome here!

Yeah good choice. These are great cabs!

Looks like the cab A was made in England, cab B in the US.

Not sure if the wiring or that cracked jack plate are original or not, but cab A is better wired up right now. For a start the wires are properly soldered to the speaker whereas cab B just has the push on 'spade' connectors which I loathe. Easy job to simply remove the spades from cab B and properly solder the wires. (Just ask a friend if you aren't confident soldering.)

I'd personally use slightly thicker guage wire myself - mains cable is ideal. Also no need for the wire connecting the two speakers to be so long. Either way though I'd definitely solder the connections as
1. those spades can sometimes work loose with the vibrations which could potentially trash a valve amps output transformer if you were playing loud at the time and
2. you'll get a better electrical connection anyway. Like I say I HATE those clip on spades!!!

If you wanted to replace the jack panel (which has clearly been overtightened causing the splitting) I'd just do that at the same time. It is likely a standard sized part - not sure on that but I'd think a suitably robust replacemnt should be easy enough to track down.

As for the wooden center brace I've heard of Orange cabs old and new with and without them. They are mainly designed to cut down resonances both in the speaker baffle and (mainly) the cabs back panel. But sometimes those resonances can add a more interesting more complex sound. If you aren't noticing any nasty rattles in the cab without one and like the sounds fine I really wouldn't worry about it.

Nice cabs!


Andy.

Thanx for the reply. I am definitely going to re-do the wiring in cab B and as far as the center brace is concerned, I did not notice any resonance issues the other night so I will more than likely leave that as it is.

[fender126]

I think the jack plate on the older cab is original, and the cracks suggest that someone has messed about the inside of the cab at some point. I think it's more likely that the wiring and speakers are not original to the cab. It may have originally been an Eminence-loaded cab that got "upgraded" to Vintage 30s by a previous owner. The speakers should have a date code to tell you how old they are, but they do appear to be the newer PRC-made Vintage 30s. It's too bad the ink on the back label of the cab got wiped away, as it could tell you if the cab is older than the speakers. It's probably at least three or four years old anyhow.

Thanx for the reply. Did Orange put Eminence speakers in their cabs at one point? Yea, it would have nice to be able to research the serial number but unfortunately it got rubbed off. Being not too familiar with Orange cabinets, I just wanted to find out if the differences I saw in cab B were aftermarket or indicative of an older cabinet.

[a.hun]

Did Orange put Eminence speakers in their cabs at one point? Yea, it would have nice to be able to research the serial number but unfortunately it got rubbed off. Being not too familiar with Orange cabinets, I just wanted to find out if the differences I saw in cab B were aftermarket or indicative of an older cabinet.

Yes Orange have used Eminence speakers over the years in US cabs. (Sometimes Celestions too I think. UK ones have pretty much always come stock with Celestions.

Billy here has had both Eminence and Celestion V.30 cabs and found sonic differences pretty minimal. I am on the wrong side of the big pond to have seen any US cabs myself...


Andy.

[Orphin]

Didn't read all your replies, but the differences are just age. My 412 cab looks like your older cab. My friends 412 looks like your newer cab. I bought my 412 about 5 years ago, while my friend bought his for about a year ago.
The new plate is much better than the old one. They always crack at the corners like that on the older ones.

[a.hun]

Didn't read all your replies, but the differences are just age.

And origin...


Andy.

[fender126]

Didn't read all your replies, but the differences are just age. My 412 cab looks like your older cab. My friends 412 looks like your newer cab. I bought my 412 about 5 years ago, while my friend bought his for about a year ago.
The new plate is much better than the old one. They always crack at the corners like that on the older ones.

That's kind of what I figured. So I guess the crappy plastic jack plate was indicative of the older models? Anyway, I agree that the newer style is a significant improvement. Thanx.

[Orphin]

Didn't read all your replies, but the differences are just age. My 412 cab looks like your older cab. My friends 412 looks like your newer cab. I bought my 412 about 5 years ago, while my friend bought his for about a year ago.
The new plate is much better than the old one. They always crack at the corners like that on the older ones.

That's kind of what I figured. So I guess the crappy plastic jack plate was indicative of the older models? Anyway, I agree that the newer style is a significant improvement. Thanx.

Yes, absolutely. Cheers!

Didn't read all your replies, but the differences are just age.

And origin...


Andy.

On these particular cabs yes. But the older UK cabs looked like the US cab in this picture. I would hope that they have improved the US cabs as well by now.

[Randy Bass]

I have a 2008 PPC-212 (CB) that has the improved jack plate. It says "Made in England", although it was shipped directly from Eminence, Kentucky and has Vintage 30s in it. How could anyone find that confusing ?

[a.hun]

I have a 2008 PPC-212 (CB) that has the improved jack plate. It says "Made in England", although it was shipped directly from Eminence, Kentucky and has Vintage 30s in it. How could anyone find that confusing ?

Clear as Mississippi mud from ye olde spring water well in deepest downtown Borehamwood, US of GB.

Glad all Orange history isn't as clear cut as that. Could get seriously confusing...


Andy.

[bclaire]

I found the Eminence v Celestion Vintage 30's was interesting- now mine were older Eminences, but they sound almost identical just softer in volume a bit.

I think it's all in the differences between the US v UK cabinet makers... and the parts they have available.