Orange cab questions

Maybe someone can help you date your Orange Amplifier?

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HeathworkOrange
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Orange cab questions

Post by HeathworkOrange » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:29 pm

This is my first post.

I saw a band here in Minnesota about 1975. The guitar on the left was playing orange while the guitar on the right was Marshall. They both sounded extremely good. I've had a great impression of Orange ever since but have not owned any until now.

I've got 2 4x12 cabs and 2 or120 heads and I can negotiate price on them. I just want to deal with the cabs in this post.

Both cabs look great and sound great. But, when I cracked them open I grew concerned. Both cabs have a mix of speakers in them.

Eminence speakers are most of what are in these cabs. Square magnets, silver, 12ppgf16ax 67 7438. I understand that this means they are from the 38th week of 1974.

Are these Eminence original speakers? I was expecting (hoping) for celestion greenbacks.

The other brand I found in these cabs was in fact celestion. But I think they are much newer. I haven't found a way to date these. Could you please point me to a source?

Celestion model G12M, 25 watts, 8 ohms, Bass Res 55 hz. Speaker stamp T1871 KJ5.

Like I said everthing really does sound good. I just would like to know what I have here and it's value. The cabs each have a serial numbers of 3878 and 4072. and are in great shape and have black covers to go with. I was told they are worth at least $1000usd each but that assumed orignal speakers. I think they are worth at least $500usd. Any guesses? Go head and use your native currency if you like. Thanks for you help with this!

a.hun
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Re: Orange cab questions

Post by a.hun » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:08 pm

Hi HeathworkOrange. Welcome! :D

I'd be very careful of using those G12Ms with an OR120 set too loud as...
1. they could very easily be blown by the amp, and
2. you really don't want to blow them!
If genuine they could well be pretty unusual Celestions. Normally G12M-25s have a bass resonce of 75 Hz. I've heard of 55 Hz resonance ones but only ever actually come across 55Hz G12H-30s myself.
KJ5 = 5th October '76.

Photos of the back magnet labels would be great, and also of any code stamped ont he speaker cones themselves. You may well find an 014 or 14 to indicate the 55Hz cone.

Lots of info on various 'Greenback' variants here with many different chassis / cone / date codes:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=67646" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You might want to plough through that thread, or may find it easier to just ask 'Dr. Decibel' at Celestion about them.
http://professional.celestion.com/guita ... /index.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You'll find access to their date codes there, and a form to submit to ask about the codes on your Celestions.

Alternatively try a searching or asking at the Plexi Palace forum cabs and speakers section:
http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewforum.php?f=12" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don't know about your old Eminences I'm afraid, except that they may well be original to the cabs.


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

bclaire
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Re: Orange cab questions

Post by bclaire » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:28 pm

Eminence were used in Orange cabs in the 70's sold in the US. Orange shipped empty cabs to their distributor who then loaded them with Eminence, saving on shipping costs. I have two cabs that were both loaded with Eminence- I reloaded one with Celestion Vintage 30's thinking it would sound incredibly better and it only sounded marginally louder than the Eminence loaded cab- basically sounded the same!

As long as you don't play with the back off of a greenback loaded cab you should be fine. Orange and Marshall cabs have no ports which means there is a cushion of air that helps protect the speakers and keeps them from blowing. I have two Marshall cabs from 1970 with original greenbacks that I used to run with two Marshall Superleads (and they were 135 and 147 watts respectively) with no problems at all.

I would think that your guess of $1K for each cab is probably about right given their age- and I don't think it would matter with replaced speakers... your Celestion with that date code was made October 5, 1999. Of course that's the approx value- the REAL value is what someone will pay for them!

fiveightandten
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Re: Orange cab questions

Post by fiveightandten » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:30 am

Andy and Billy summed it up pretty well above me, but can you clarify what the situation is with the speakers?

If one cab is loaded with the Eminence square-backs, and the other with the Celestions, that's one thing. But if both cabs are a mix of mismatched speakers, neither will be collectors items due to their lack of original speakers and you should go by what they're worth to you as a functional pieces.

I don't think $500 is out of line at all for a 70s Orange 4x12 with functioning speakers in it. It's quite good in today's market. I'd expect a cab even with some non-original speakers to sell for a bit more than that. Plus, a lot of the sound of these cabs comes from the box design. If you haven't played one, be advised that they're very dark sounding, and very directional. They have a great tone that's pretty unique to their design though. And when it comes to cabs, you can't buy the affects of time on wood, or magnets.

As far as power levels. OR-120's put out gobs of low end, and a decent amount of power. So in a cab loaded with greenbacks, you'd have to watch how you treat it. It's possible to play a non-MV OR-120 through a cab loaded with 25W speakers and not damage them. But keep your ear on the speakers to listen for signs of them being overloaded.

For reference, I paid (I think, it's been a while) $200 for my unloaded '71 Orange 4x12. It's now loaded with V30's, but I considered that a nice price for the box. Mine was pretty tattered and missing a grille cloth. As luck would have it, Billy here had one lying around that he didn't have need for and donated it to a worthy cause. To this day, years later, it's still on the cab (which we've affectionately named "The Pig" due to how offensively grotesque it looked with a tattered American flag in leiu of a proper grille cloth), which is sitting in the next room as I type.

-Nick
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'71 GRO100 || '96 OR-80 || AD30 || '64 AC-50 || AC-30TBX || Hiwatt DR504 || HI-TONE HT30
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HeathworkOrange
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Re: Orange cab questions

Post by HeathworkOrange » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:36 pm

The celestions are mixed into each cab. One in the first cab. Two in the second. I just created a picasa account with a few pics of the speakers. After looking at the pics can you tell if the 1976 or the 1999 date is correct? The celestions seem newer so I suspect it might be 1999. How do you know the difference? Is the black around the magnet an indicator?

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?u ... feat=email" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for all the feedback. If this picture thing works let me know. I take pictures of the two heads and put them up for some help on a couple questions.

a.hun
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Re: Orange cab questions

Post by a.hun » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:20 pm

Thanks for the pics. Really unusual 25 watters which are going to sound unique!!! Going to stick with my date (unless it is really KJ3 which would make them 2 days older) because...
(From Celestions own dating info on that Dr. Decibel page)

The date codes from 1968 to 1991 are written in the form: Month, Year, Day. For example: KH7 = 7th October 1975

1968 - 1991
YEAR CODE MONTH CODE
1968 A January A
1969 B February B
1970 C March C
1971 D April D
1972 R May E
1973 F June F
1974 G July G
1975 H August H
1976 J September J
1977 K October K
1978 L November L
1979 M December M
1980 N
1981 P
1982 Q
1983 R
1984 S
1985 T
1986 U
1987 V
1988 W
1989 X
1990 Y
1991 Z/A

(The date codes from 1992 are written in the form: Day, Month, Year. For example: 29EJ = 29th May 1999.)

Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

bclaire
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Re: Orange cab questions

Post by bclaire » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:37 pm

Yup, I misread Celestion's date codes page- Andy is correct!

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