Rockerverb 100, then and now

[kannibul]

I know that Orange changed to using Mercury Magenetics transformers for production in the uS (not sure in the UK) for the Rockerverb 100 (not sure on the others)

Anyhow, I guess the only person who could comment on this, is Ade, but here goes...what are the tonal differences between the non-mercury equiped and the mercury equiped RV100's?

Thanks

[Ade Emsley]

The Mercury transformers sound better than the Douglas and Dagnell versions that were used untill recently in the UK in Rockerverb 50`s/ 100`s and AD140`s. However, all of the UK built transformers have now been re-designed to perform the same and sound as good as the US built Mercury`s! The designs are still quite different from each other because the core materials in the US and UK/Europe are far from the same. I`ve had to use some very exotic winding designs in the UK to match the tone and bandwidth of the Mercury`s and the result is far from cheap! China is using the lions share of the steel and copper and this is raising the price to the rest of the world so if you combine this with more winding time/layers/insulation and more sections, there is only one thing that can happen, it costs us more!
In the UK, Orange is the only company that I know of that pay this sort of attention to its transformers and you would`nt believe the kind of crap that I`ve come across when servicing some other brands of UK made amps (not mentioning any names)! I`d be changing the output transformer in a two month old amp that had gone down to bedroom volume and found that there was no interleaving insulation on the primary (no wonder it shorted)! You get the picture?:?:

[Bluz57]

What type of transformers are used in the custom shop amps?

[Ade Emsley]

The power transformer is the same as the Rockerverb 50 but the output is a paper wound (very expensive) Majestic!

[Bluz57]

How would you describe the differece in the tone of the Retro 50 and the AD50?

[irish_admiral]

Ade, how are the trannies in the old AD30s?

[kannibul]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Ade Emsley</i>
<br />The Mercury transformers sound better than the Douglas and Dagnell versions that were used untill recently in the UK in Rockerverb 50`s/ 100`s and AD140`s. However, all of the UK built transformers have now been re-designed to perform the same and sound as good as the US built Mercury`s! The designs are still quite different from each other because the core materials in the US and UK/Europe are far from the same. I`ve had to use some very exotic winding designs in the UK to match the tone and bandwidth of the Mercury`s and the result is far from cheap! China is using the lions share of the steel and copper and this is raising the price to the rest of the world so if you combine this with more winding time/layers/insulation and more sections, there is only one thing that can happen, it costs us more!
In the UK, Orange is the only company that I know of that pay this sort of attention to its transformers and you would`nt believe the kind of crap that I`ve come across when servicing some other brands of UK made amps (not mentioning any names)! I`d be changing the output transformer in a two month old amp that had gone down to bedroom volume and found that there was no interleaving insulation on the primary (no wonder it shorted)! You get the picture?:?:
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks for your reply Ade.

But, tonally what's different? I realize that in your opinion, they sound better, but, in what ways?

And, I agree - not many manufacturer's care about the quality of the Output Transformer (which, is a pretty significant part of the tone) - let alone other components... at least, none that are of the scale that Orange is.

[Ade Emsley]

The Retro 50 is not a reissue but has a simillar circuit and tone to old 120`s. the AD50 is just an all out tone machine without the limitations of the old circuit!

The old AD30 outputs were only 2 section and not so great! I kept on trying to get things built better so in 2001 I got them changed to 3 sections with more insulation and got them put on an M6 core. This made them hold up a whole lot better but I still thought I could get more tone out of em.
Now they are 5 section in the UK and US! Demeter and Mercury Magnetics and are the best they`ve ever been!

The Mercury`s and the Orange designed Demeter`s (nothing to do with the amp company in the US) have a much better clean tone and a much more musical overdrive!:)

[irish_admiral]

Reckon it's worth picking up a new OT for my AD30? It's a 1999 model...

[irish_admiral]

Any ideas, Ade?

[Ade Emsley]

It is worth getting either a Mercury from Orange USA or a Demeter from Orange UK! You want a 30w output (OT119). The colour code is the same and its only 4 screws and 6 wires to swap it out!
Try one and see what you think. You will probably notice more detaill and definition all round! It will cost more from the US than the UK but either way should`nt cost the earth.

[mpisarcik]

joe- if you decide to get new trannies for your ad30r i'd be interested in hearing about the details (price, differences, value). I have a 2004 model from what i can see, maybe they are just fine:

[irish_admiral]

Ade, nice one. How much is a Demeter?

[Rally Car]

Ade....would I get the same result in my 2003 AD140HTC if I changed the output transformer?...What would it do to the tone? Smoother distortion? I'm curious as I may have to try this. Also on another note would the MM transformers for the AD140HTC amps work on the OR120? I've heard the old transformers were a drop in replacement. Is this true with the MM Irons?

[Ade Emsley]

The 30 watt output is £38.69 inc VAT!
The MM 100W output is a direct replacement for the AD140 and the OR120 (different colour code) as long as the old amp does not have drop through transformers.
This output is used in the Rockerverb 100 and AD140!
However, the 140 power transformer can only go in an AD140.
The Rockerverb 100 power transformer is a direct replacement in an OR120 (non drop through only) but it does supply a lower plate voltage (440v but with more current) which makes the old amp more reliable! The secondary colour code is the same but it has two 120v primary windings that you wire together in parallel for the USA making it much better than the old one because you are using 100% of the winding (in the USA) as opposed to 50% on the old one!