Orange Rocker 15 Terror Valves/Tube Questions

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Distortion_101
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Orange Rocker 15 Terror Valves/Tube Questions

Post by Distortion_101 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:30 am

Hi all

Bought a Orange Rocker 15 Terror and have a few questions regarding the valves.

Its a lovely amp, just trying to tweak it a bit to get it to be 100%

The back of my amp says ECC81 (12AT7), ECC82 (12AX7), ECC83 (12AX7). Now I know an ECC82 is a 12AU7 and this is a typo, as the internals are different and pics online show differently. At least I hope...

Now opening my amp up, I have noticed that i have ECC81 (12AT7, Effects Loop), 1 x ECC83S (12AX7, V1), 2 x ECC83 (12AX7, V2 & V3 PI). The layout is in the pics below and is the same as the TT judging from the sticky..

Now for my questions
1. Does anyone have a schematic for this amp? Are my thoughts regarding V1-3 correct?
2 .Using the headroom/bedroom option, and half power options, does this cut off any valve?
3. I tried removing the tubes, and they are damn near impossible (when compared to my old Laney Cub 12). Any tricks besides jiggling from the bottom of the tube?
4. For the PI (V3) slot, how would a high gain 12AX7 or high current 12AT7 compare?

Which brings me to my final question, that may be circuit or tube related.

The dirty channel is clean with the gain up to 12 o'clock (in fact its quiet up to 9 o'clock). Then from 12 to 3 o'clock the gain goes crazy, from clean to Mastodon stuff. Is this small range normal? Is there a way to spread this out a bit to make the gain channel more gradual to really take advantage of the tone this amp produces? It seems to be a very weird issue.

I appreciate the help guys.

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Les Paul Lover
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Re: Orange Rocker 15 Terror Valves/Tube Questions

Post by Les Paul Lover » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:37 pm

The way you describe the gain range is pretty similar to what happens with my Orange R30 head. It stay clean pretty far, then goes from vintage OD to full on filth in pretty much the same range as you describe
That's simply the design of the amp.

I Love my R30. It's not for everything, but gosh.... does it just excel at what it does!!!!
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5


Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

PBA
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Re: Orange Rocker 15 Terror Valves/Tube Questions

Post by PBA » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:39 pm

Distortion_101 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:30 am
...The dirty channel is clean with the gain up to 12 o'clock (in fact its quiet up to 9 o'clock). Then from 12 to 3 o'clock the gain goes crazy, from clean to Mastodon stuff. Is this small range normal? Is there a way to spread this out a bit to make the gain channel more gradual to really take advantage of the tone this amp produces? It seems to be a very weird issue.
I'm by no means an expert on valves and the inner workings of amps...

A fairly rapid transition from clean to high gain is common to many amps and isn't exclusively an Orange trait, but yes - it's normal.
I'm sure I notice the abruptness more at lower volumes but then, I rarely use high gain. Different pickups will also have a major effect. Try turning down the guitar volume a bit when setting up your core tone?
If you really feel it necessary you could try experimenting with the V1 valve. A 12AT7 or 12AU7 my reduce the gain sufficiently to give you a wider useful range on the gain control (or it might just move the rage to another place on the dial!). By the way, the 12AX7 designated ECC83S is most likely simply a lower noise version of 12AX7 / ECC83 and will be used in V1 where it matters most for high gain applications. If you are concerned about the rapid change from clean to high gain I suspect you aren't really getting much benefit from it.
If I understand correctly, changing the PI valve will have very limited impact on the sound of the amp and may only be worthwhile if you have problems with it.

No doubt, others with far greater knowledge will contribute in a day or two...

Jondog
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Re: Orange Rocker 15 Terror Valves/Tube Questions

Post by Jondog » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:46 pm

I think the gain increases will stay mostly the same no matter what valve is used unless you mod the preamp. Modern Orange amps, use a dual gang pot for the gain control to increase gain on two stages at once. This happens on the 2nd and 3rd stage on the Rocker. So as one stage is being pushed harder, the next stage is being pushed even harder. I find the Rocker very easy to dial in, light crunch sits between 12:00-2:00 I find. Below that I'm setting up for a clean sound.
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Yukon
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Re: Orange Rocker 15 Terror Valves/Tube Questions

Post by Yukon » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:25 pm

I also received my new rocker 15 terror. Has anyone figured out, why it says ECC82(12AX7)?
I'm about to swap some tubes but I don't know which one I should put into this position. I have a slight static hum in my amp and I hope a bit of tube rolling could solve the problem.

The three in the front from left to right are now a Ruby 12AY7 and two JJ ECC83S. The one between the front row and the power tubes is also a JJ ECC83S.

Please help me out:)

Rlw59
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Re: Orange Rocker 15 Terror Valves/Tube Questions

Post by Rlw59 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:58 pm

Yukon wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:25 pm
I also received my new rocker 15 terror. Has anyone figured out, why it says ECC82(12AX7)?
I'm about to swap some tubes but I don't know which one I should put into this position. I have a slight static hum in my amp and I hope a bit of tube rolling could solve the problem.

The three in the front from left to right are now a Ruby 12AY7 and two JJ ECC83S. The one between the front row and the power tubes is also a JJ ECC83S.

Please help me out:)
Graphic designers generally aren't electrical engineers and most can't tell a resistor from a transistor.

Probably didn't know the ECC #'s are alternate names for 12A_7 tubes. Misinterpreted the engineer's instructions -- thought the ECC #'s were position designaters, and that the engineer's instruction had a typo.

EEC81, ECC83, ECC83? "Silly engineer must have meant positions 1, 2, and 3, so I'll fix it to ECC81, ECC82, ECC83!"

And engineers aren't generally great proofreaders, so he glanced at the mockup and said, "that looks fine".
------------------------
They're probably making a new silkscreen now. Or will be shortly after someone notices this thread.

The first batch with the typo might be slightly collectable someday.

Yukon
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Re: Orange Rocker 15 Terror Valves/Tube Questions

Post by Yukon » Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:29 pm

Oh I didn't know that, many thanks! I'm so happy with this amp, I've got a bunch of Marshall heads, a Fender and some others but the orange feels like I found my sound after all these years.

If only this static hum wasn't there... But I'm waiting on a new one, from the shop where I bought the first one. They said they tested the showroom example and it didn't hum at all so they send me a brand new one.

Hope the other one doesn't do that :)

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