Orange Rocker 30 Problem.

Orange Amps Technical Q&A's

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6Stringmofo
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Orange Rocker 30 Problem.

Post by 6Stringmofo » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:15 pm

Image

V3 and the power tubes aren't lighting up.

The Power LED also isn't lighting it (which gets it's power from a power tube).
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Les Paul Lover
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Re: Orange Rocker 30 Problem.

Post by Les Paul Lover » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:38 am

It looks like a valve heater circuit failure.

I had the same issue on my 2 AD15s a while back. I beleive the R30 uses similar splicers, and they are bound to fail at some point.


Image

In this pic of the inside of my R30, you can see a yellow twisted wire going from the pilot light to 2 black splicers, each servicing the preamp valves or the power valves.

I haven't looked into it in detail, but the as the other valves haven't splicers, it means the trace for the other valves is within the PCB.

You said V1 and V2 are still lighting up?
I believe they get their power separately. The other valves are all getting their heater power from TX4 and TX6.

I'm not sure if you know what to do inside an amp re: safety and not killing yourself, but the fix, assuming TX4 and TX6 get their 3.15v each, is to remove the splicers and hard wire it.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, AD15, Tiny Terror, AD5

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

bclaire
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Re: Orange Rocker 30 Problem.

Post by bclaire » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:59 am

When you say "splicer" you mean spade connector?

Jondog
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Re: Orange Rocker 30 Problem.

Post by Jondog » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:42 am

Check the pair of 6.3 amp fuses, FS3 and FS4.
Image

6Stringmofo
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Re: Orange Rocker 30 Problem.

Post by 6Stringmofo » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:46 pm

Les Paul Lover wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:38 am
It looks like a valve heater circuit failure.

I had the same issue on my 2 AD15s a while back. I beleive the R30 uses similar splicers, and they are bound to fail at some point.


Image

In this pic of the inside of my R30, you can see a yellow twisted wire going from the pilot light to 2 black splicers, each servicing the preamp valves or the power valves.

I haven't looked into it in detail, but the as the other valves haven't splicers, it means the trace for the other valves is within the PCB.

You said V1 and V2 are still lighting up?
I believe they get their power separately. The other valves are all getting their heater power from TX4 and TX6.

I'm not sure if you know what to do inside an amp re: safety and not killing yourself, but the fix, assuming TX4 and TX6 get their 3.15v each, is to remove the splicers and hard wire it.
Thanks for the info. I'll check that out when I can.

I was leaning towards the irons but I've never run into an intermittent TX.
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6Stringmofo
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Re: Orange Rocker 30 Problem.

Post by 6Stringmofo » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:47 pm

Jondog wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:42 am
Check the pair of 6.3 amp fuses, FS3 and FS4.
First thing I did :)
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Les Paul Lover
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Re: Orange Rocker 30 Problem.

Post by Les Paul Lover » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:09 pm

bclaire wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:59 am
When you say "splicer" you mean spade connector?
No, i mean splicer.

If you look in the centre of V3 and V5 on the pic I posted, you will see tallish black things, with twisted yellow wires going from the light bulb, to the splicer on V3, then the splicers on V5.

The splicer itself has a small blade that cuts the wire open when you insert it in and push it on the splicers recipient 3 shafts (those shafts/forks/male parts whatever you call it are made of of metal and make the connection with the rest of the PCB circuit). Essentially, they mean cheaper assembly costs, but at the expense of reliability in my experience.

I believe Orange has been moving away for these splicers in more recent products. On the plus side, they're a reasonably easy fix - Hardwire them and you'll never have that issue again.

Here I think the heater splicers on V5 is connected to the transformer supplies on TX4 and TX6, passes on the valve heater power supply to V4 via PCB traces, and to V3 and the bulb via the splicers.

My guess is that the connection fails on the splicer on V5 - otherwise both EL34 would warm up.

It could be something totally different of course.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, AD15, Tiny Terror, AD5

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

Sooner
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Re: Orange Rocker 30 Problem.

Post by Sooner » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:54 pm

Les Paul Lover wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:09 pm


My guess is that the connection fails on the splicer on V5 - otherwise both EL34 would warm up.

It could be something totally different of course.
Looks like your diagnosis is spot on to me.
Sooner
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6Stringmofo
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Re: Orange Rocker 30 Problem.

Post by 6Stringmofo » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:44 pm

Sooner wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:54 pm
Les Paul Lover wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:09 pm


My guess is that the connection fails on the splicer on V5 - otherwise both EL34 would warm up.

It could be something totally different of course.
Looks like your diagnosis is spot on to me.
I'll let you all know how it works out. Getting back into it tomorrow in the evening.
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Les Paul Lover
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Re: Orange Rocker 30 Problem.

Post by Les Paul Lover » Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:00 pm

6Stringmofo wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:44 pm
Sooner wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:54 pm
Les Paul Lover wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:09 pm


My guess is that the connection fails on the splicer on V5 - otherwise both EL34 would warm up.

It could be something totally different of course.
Looks like your diagnosis is spot on to me.
I'll let you all know how it works out. Getting back into it tomorrow in the evening.
Did you manage to get it sorted???
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, AD15, Tiny Terror, AD5

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

6Stringmofo
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Re: Orange Rocker 30 Problem.

Post by 6Stringmofo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:12 pm

I put it on the back burner for the week.

I can confirm the twisted pair buzzed out fine, and the EL34s are getting their 400+ volts. Been having a hard time finding a schematic :\
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jontheid
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Re: Orange Rocker 30 Problem.

Post by jontheid » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:49 pm

It's not about the EL34s getting their 400 volts(plate voltage), it is about them (and the other non-glowing preamp tubes) getting their 6.3V heater supply.

The Rocker 30 is a weird setup. It uses a mains transformer originally designed to supply a valve rectifier (5V heater) as well as preamp/power tubes (6.3V heaters).

V1 & V2 (preamp valves) run their heaters from the 5V supply.

All the other valves run off the 6.3V heater supply, as does the power lamp. This supply has 2 fuses, FS3 and FS4, both T6.3A.

I think that checking these fuses is a good place to start. Check them with a meter, as fuses can look good but be blown.

You can see where FS3 and FS4 are in the pic below - above and to the left of the V5 socket.

Cheers,
Jon

Image

jontheid
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Re: Orange Rocker 30 Problem.

Post by jontheid » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:52 pm

Doh ! You have already done this!
If these test good, then check the voltage to ground (using AC setting on meter) on either side of the fs3 and fs4 fuseholders.

I have a Rocker 30 schematic, fuzzy but useable, can send it to you if you like.

Cheers,
Jon

jontheid
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Re: Orange Rocker 30 Problem.

Post by jontheid » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:56 pm

Or the other thing to do is to measure the AC voltage at the spade connectors where the thick yellow wires attach - TX4 & TX6.
If there is no voltage here with the amp switched on then the 6.3V tap is toast and it is new power transformer time.

6Stringmofo
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Re: Orange Rocker 30 Problem.

Post by 6Stringmofo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:35 pm

jontheid wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:49 pm
It's not about the EL34s getting their 400 volts(plate voltage), it is about them (and the other non-glowing preamp tubes) getting their 6.3V heater supply.

The Rocker 30 is a weird setup. It uses a mains transformer originally designed to supply a valve rectifier (5V heater) as well as preamp/power tubes (6.3V heaters).

V1 & V2 (preamp valves) run their heaters from the 5V supply.

All the other valves run off the 6.3V heater supply, as does the power lamp. This supply has 2 fuses, FS3 and FS4, both T6.3A.

I think that checking these fuses is a good place to start. Check them with a meter, as fuses can look good but be blown.

You can see where FS3 and FS4 are in the pic below - above and to the left of the V5 socket.

Cheers,
Jon

Image
To all your post.

Thanks. I'm used to fixing Marshalls, Orange amps seem vary different in their design.

I'll try all those things and let you know.
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