Rocker 30 Cathode Bias EL34L Issue?

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freaksarise
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Rocker 30 Cathode Bias EL34L Issue?

Post by freaksarise » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:17 pm

I've searched this topic for days but cannot seem to find a qualified answer. Does anyone know if switching from "regular" EL34 valves to EL34L valves could cause an issue or harm my Rocker 30? I understand that within the typical slight deviation from tube to tube (EL34), the amp will "self-bias" itself. But since the EL34L is electronically different than the EL34, do you feel that I should be concerned for the health of the amp?

Perhaps the tube's life will be reduced. I am OK with that.

Some will say "You should ALWAYS go to a tech when swapping tubes in any scenario".

That's a fine answer too and appreciated. I am curious if a definitive answer can be found from a knowledgeable tech in this group or by Orange themselves. To be safe, I ordered more EL34 tubes to swap them out with the EL34L I accidentally purchased but would like to know if it is OK to use them.

I also welcome any experience from players that have used them in their Rocker 30 and if they had any issues, short tube lives, etc.

Thanks
Rich

Les Paul Lover
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Re: Rocker 30 Cathode Bias EL34L Issue?

Post by Les Paul Lover » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:27 pm

No, you should be fine.

The amp is cathode biased, you would need a drastic variation from regular EL34 to have an issue.

It freely accepts EL34, 6CA7 or KT77. I'm pretty sure EL34L are a straight drop in too.

Drop them in and tell us what you think!!!!
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, AD15, Tiny Terror, AD5

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

Jondog
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Re: Rocker 30 Cathode Bias EL34L Issue?

Post by Jondog » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:18 am

I’m assuming you bought E34L as opposed to EL34? They’re basically the same but the E34L needs more negative voltage on the grid according to the data sheet. A fixed bias amp may sometimes require a mod to the bias circuit to reach that bias. Shouldn’t be a big issue in a cathode bias amp like the Rocker.
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freaksarise
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Re: Rocker 30 Cathode Bias EL34L Issue?

Post by freaksarise » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:51 pm

Holy crap you are exactly right. They are E34L. I didn't even notice that. So what upsets me a little bit, is that I asked the guy for EL34 tubes that were rated for slightly higher gain and not for an E34L. I am an OCD self-educator but this one slipped by me. I take the blame though haha. Anyhow, so far they sound amazing. The moment I swapped them out they were louder more growlier and the dynamic range with just the change in my pick attack is so incredibly wide. This is perfect for the metal/stoner/doom side of me.

They sound like they are running "hotter" as if I was biasing my JCM800 and purposefully made it hotter (which I don't do in order to not shorten the life of the tubes and I like it a little less harmonic). Overall it's a really cool difference - especially from power tubes alone. Crazy. Sounds like I should be OK between your answers and others in FB Orange Amp forums.

On the other hand, the rock side of me (and the reason I am using this amp live) is on the fence. When the EL34s that I just ordered arrive in a couple of days, I will compare them for a final decision. I worry that the sound that I've come to love of my little ole Rocker 30 may be a little on steroids with the e34Ls but I'll know this week. Until the e34Ls burn in, they seem a tad abrasive with possibly too many harmonics.

I will follow up once I get through the burn in phases and play a few three hour sets.

Thanks everyone!
Rich

Jondog
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Re: Rocker 30 Cathode Bias EL34L Issue?

Post by Jondog » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:13 pm

I’ve read up on them, and they get good reviews for pretty much what you describe. Try a set of 6CA7’s in the Rocker if you want a some more bottom end. They’re one of my favorites and other people here with Rockers love them too.
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freaksarise
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Re: Rocker 30 Cathode Bias EL34L Issue?

Post by freaksarise » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:37 pm

I definitely will! Now I'm psyched about getting them ASAP haha.

One thing that confuses me: I recently used my old tube tester to test some EL34 valves. In order to know which settings to configure on the tester, I looked at the manual and it didn't include EL34 so I googled other possible naming conventions and found 6CA7 as the "The American RETMA tube designation for an EL34". The confusing part is that it read that they were the same valve with a different name.

Excluding the idea that no tube will sound exactly the same, models and brands, etc. It appears that maybe the 6CA7 DOES have a different tonal quality after all? Either way I will be buying them as well haha.
Thanks man
Rich

Jondog
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Re: Rocker 30 Cathode Bias EL34L Issue?

Post by Jondog » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:56 pm

They are electrically the same, but do sound different. 6CA7’s have a bit bigger bottle.
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freaksarise
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Re: Rocker 30 Cathode Bias EL34L Issue?

Post by freaksarise » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:58 pm

Noice!! So bad ass to find other people using Rocker 30s. I have a pile of poop ton of amps and gear (no vacations, shitty car, bag lunches, etc) but it's my favorite and I've never crossed any other players on stage, in studio, or life that use it haha. Luckily I don't put much weight in fx loops haha.

Les Paul Lover
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Re: Rocker 30 Cathode Bias EL34L Issue?

Post by Les Paul Lover » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:48 pm

Well, you could always retro fit an FX loop.....

I've bought one for my R30, but haven't fitted it yet.

It's a pretty neat amp. It's dirt is..... something else. That fat fuzzy OD..... :twisted:

Jondog has fitted fx loop to his previous R30 too. It can be done!!! :wink:
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, AD15, Tiny Terror, AD5

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

freaksarise
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Re: Rocker 30 Cathode Bias EL34L Issue?

Post by freaksarise » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:23 am

yeah man, I’ve been considering it and have been researching a bit. I’m in the process of learning and trying to build my first amp (been doing pedals for a while) and was considering adding the loop or having someone do it for me.

Les Paul Lover
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Posts: 6324
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Derby, England

Re: Rocker 30 Cathode Bias EL34L Issue?

Post by Les Paul Lover » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:56 pm

freaksarise wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:23 am
yeah man, I’ve been considering it and have been researching a bit. I’m in the process of learning and trying to build my first amp (been doing pedals for a while) and was considering adding the loop or having someone do it for me.
I'm looking forward to have mine fitted. Got all the parts now, just a matter to find the time to install it..... and build a fuzz face clone with flashing lights..... and build a klon clone.......
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, AD15, Tiny Terror, AD5

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

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