Rattling/crackling Orange CR120 and Crush Pro 4x12 - UPDATE & Short Video

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Lyric
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Rattling/crackling Orange CR120 and Crush Pro 4x12 - UPDATE & Short Video

Post by Lyric » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:52 am

So not to long back I created a thread about rattling/crackling I was experiencing with my CR120 and Crush Pro 4x12. So last few days I’m noticing it again. I don’t notice it when using a distortion pedal or when playing clean but if I use a light overdrive pedal is when I notice it. When using a light overdrive pedal I get the normal light breakup overdrive but a slight rattling/crackle can also be heard. Almost sounds like a bad speaker is rubbing, rattling or something.

I opened up the 4x12 cab and inspected the speakers. I pulled each speaker out and tapped each one and got solid thud sound. I slightly pushed the cone using both hands to hear for any rubbing sounds and no bad sound at all. I slightly hit my fist on the back of the magnet while holding the metal part of the speaker and got a solid thud sound. I checked and tightened all screws in the cabinet internally and made sure the speaker screws holding the speakers were snug. I even left the back panel off to test and it was still present.

So I’m wondering if it’s possibly a bad speaker? Or the CR120 Head sounds like the issue? Should I replace the speakers for higher wattage speakers? I’ll try and upload a video to help with showing what I’m hearing. Kind of lost here.
Last edited by Lyric on Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Orange CR120H/Crush Pro 4x12

Rlw59
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Re: Rattling/crackling with Orange CR120 and Crush Pro 4x12

Post by Rlw59 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:42 am

This may seem ridiculous, but it's happened to me several times...

It could be something in the room vibrating. The first time it happened to me I spent weeks trying to fix my amp, and couldn't find anything wrong. Only happened at certain volumes, certain notes, certain gain levels. Turned out to be some junk in a metal box on a shelf.

Now when my amps make weird rattling crackling buzzy sounds (sometimes it sounds like low level distortion ghost notes) I start moving stuff around and pressing on things.

Sometimes the noise source can be on the opposite side of the room. You'd think that should be obvious that it's not coming from the amp, but it's not always easy to tell it's coming from a different location.

My front door is metal and has a knocker on it. When the knocker started buzzing it took a while to find. Solution was to move my cab and aim it in a different direction.

Lyric
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Re: Rattling/crackling with Orange CR120 and Crush Pro 4x12

Post by Lyric » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:48 am

Rlw59 wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:42 am
This may seem ridiculous, but it's happened to me several times...

It could be something in the room vibrating. The first time it happened to me I spent weeks trying to fix my amp, and couldn't find anything wrong. Only happened at certain volumes, certain notes, certain gain levels. Turned out to be some junk in a metal box on a shelf.

Now when my amps make weird rattling crackling buzzy sounds (sometimes it sounds like low level distortion ghost notes) I start moving stuff around and pressing on things.

Sometimes the noise source can be on the opposite side of the room. You'd think that should be obvious that it's not coming from the amp, but it's not always easy to tell it's coming from a different location.

My front door is metal and has a knocker on it. When the knocker started buzzing it took a while to find. Solution was to move my cab and aim it in a different direction.
Would this still be the case if I’m sitting directly 2-3 feet from the amp and if I get right next to the cab like face level of the cab like a couple inches away and hearing it? I’ve tried the amp facing different directions as well. Even when I had the back off I listened through the back and could hear it.
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Orange CR120H/Crush Pro 4x12

Rlw59
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Re: Rattling/crackling with Orange CR120 and Crush Pro 4x12

Post by Rlw59 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:00 am

Phantom sounds from sympathetic vibrations can be tricky and deceiving. Do the noises happen in the same room, or have you moved the amp to other rooms and have the noises happened there? (Sorry, I don't know if you're a home player or a gigger or what.)

But if you're hearing it up close to the cab/speakers it could well be something related to the cab/speakers.

You shouldn't need higher power speakers. And the tests you've done should have revealed a bad speaker.

So another weird idea. I don't know how the Crush Pro 412 is built -- is the grille cloth stretched directly on the baffle (touching the baffle) or is it raised/suspended away from the baffle?

I once had an amp with the grille cloth that was stretched directly on the baffle, and some tones/volumes/notes made it flap. Surprisingly loud rattling/buzzing sounds.

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Re: Rattling/crackling with Orange CR120 and Crush Pro 4x12

Post by Rlw59 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:14 am

Was suggesting oddball possibilities because I assumed the previous thread had covered all the usual suspects.

But then I read the previous thread
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=55957

It seems the problem was feeding the amp a too hot input signal?

If you turn the level down on your overdrive pedal does the harsh breakup go away?

Lyric
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Re: Rattling/crackling with Orange CR120 and Crush Pro 4x12

Post by Lyric » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:17 am

Rlw59 wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:00 am
Phantom sounds from sympathetic vibrations can be tricky and deceiving. Do the noises happen in the same room, or have you moved the amp to other rooms and have the noises happened there? (Sorry, I don't know if you're a home player or a gigger or what.)

But if you're hearing it up close to the cab/speakers it could well be something related to the cab/speakers.

You shouldn't need higher power speakers. And the tests you've done should have revealed a bad speaker.

So another weird idea. I don't know how the Crush Pro 412 is built -- is the grille cloth stretched directly on the baffle (touching the baffle) or is it raised/suspended away from the baffle?

I once had an amp with the grille cloth that was stretched directly on the baffle, and some tones/volumes/notes made it flap. Surprisingly loud rattling/buzzing sounds.
The grill cloth on the Crush Pro 4x12 is directly on the baffle. So I guess this could cause what I’m hearing and that sucks if that’s the case. And I would assume there is no way around fixing that. On the bigger PPC4x12 is the cloth directly on the baffle as well?
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Re: Rattling/crackling with Orange CR120 and Crush Pro 4x12

Post by Lyric » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:25 am

Inside the cabinet with one speaker removed showing the baffle and grill cloth

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/ ... 15ddi.jpeg
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Re: Rattling/crackling with Orange CR120 and Crush Pro 4x12

Post by liaztraht » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:21 am

Is this on the clean channel only?

Ive noticed hot pickups, or a pedal pushed over unity gain can overload the clean channel a bit and crackle. Especially on harder strums. Mostly goes away at higher volume, or turning down the guitar/pedal volume.

Seems to be a common thing. Mine does it too.
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Lyric
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Re: Rattling/crackling with Orange CR120 and Crush Pro 4x12

Post by Lyric » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:32 am

Rlw59 wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:14 am
Was suggesting oddball possibilities because I assumed the previous thread had covered all the usual suspects.

But then I read the previous thread
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=55957

It seems the problem was feeding the amp a too hot input signal?

If you turn the level down on your overdrive pedal does the harsh breakup go away?
Yeah it appears to do it on all my guitars Fender Strat, Fender Jazzmaster, Fender Jaguar and an Ibanez SA Series.

Level on overdrive pedal is at about 9 o’clock.
liaztraht wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:21 am
Is this on the clean channel only?

Ive noticed hot pickups, or a pedal pushed over unity gain can overload the clean channel a bit and crackle. Especially on harder strums. Mostly goes away at higher volume, or turning down the guitar/pedal volume.

Seems to be a common thing. Mine does it too.
This is when using the clean channel and when using an overdrive pedal. When I rolled back on the guitar volume a bit it goes away a bit. It’s just a slight annoyance and kills my spirit at times when playing lol - basically annoys the hell out of me.


So is this just the amp itself that the clean channel just overloads to easily? If I switched to something else is it possible I may not experience this? I’ve never experienced this previously with other amps I’ve owned in the past whether it be solid state or tube driven.
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liaztraht
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Re: Rattling/crackling with Orange CR120 and Crush Pro 4x12

Post by liaztraht » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:55 am

Yeah, Just the clean channel. Is it happening at higher volumes?

Ive been hoping to find the schematic on line to find a fix.
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Re: Rattling/crackling with Orange CR120 and Crush Pro 4x12

Post by Rlw59 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:00 pm

When I got around to listening to your vid in the other thread, it sounded like input overload to me, not the vibrational noises I had been suggesting. And I gather that lowering your Ibanez' pickups fixed it, then it came back with the overdrive pedal.

I've only run into one other amp that can't handle hot inputs. Found an '80s Fender Frontman Reverb next to a dumpster with a broken input jack. Fixed it just out of curiousity. Sounds less bad than I'd expect with my Strat, but the clean channel can't handle my humbucker guitars unless I turn the guitars' volumes down to 2 or 3.

With the great reviews the CR60/120 gets, I wonder if they all do that. It could be that they got a bad batch of opamps, or maybe just the tolerances of resistors/caps add up the wrong way on some amps.

If possible, I'd take your pedal and one of your guitars to an Orange dealer and try some other CR's to see if they all do that.

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Re: Rattling/crackling with Orange CR120 and Crush Pro 4x12

Post by Lyric » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:08 pm

Rlw59 wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:00 pm
When I got around to listening to your vid in the other thread, it sounded like input overload to me, not the vibrational noises I had been suggesting. And I gather that lowering your Ibanez' pickups fixed it, then it came back with the overdrive pedal.

I've only run into one other amp that can't handle hot inputs. Found an '80s Fender Frontman Reverb next to a dumpster with a broken input jack. Fixed it just out of curiousity. Sounds less bad than I'd expect with my Strat, but the clean channel can't handle my humbucker guitars unless I turn the guitars' volumes down to 2 or 3.

With the great reviews the CR60/120 gets, I wonder if they all do that. It could be that they got a bad batch of opamps, or maybe just the tolerances of resistors/caps add up the wrong way on some amps.

If possible, I'd take your pedal and one of your guitars to an Orange dealer and try some other CR's to see if they all do that.
If this is the case, this sucks lol. There is a store down from me that carries the CR120. I’ll try and go down this weekend and take one of my guitars and overdrive pedal and see what I get.
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Lyric
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Re: Rattling/crackling Orange CR120 and Crush Pro 4x12 - UPDATE & Short Video

Post by Lyric » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:16 am

So Update....

Went to my local mom and pop guitar store that sales Orange amps and usually keeps in stock the Crush Pro series. Well with my bad luck or whatever they had none in stock - Christmas season I suppose and sold out lol. Went to my local Guitar Center and forget trying to hear a darn thing at Guitar Center and especially this time of the year with everyone buying and maxing every possible amp and more lol.

Anyways I got home and thought I’d play and test everything I could possibly think of. I hate to say it but it’s had me in such a distaste lately I don’t enjoy playing, again I seriously hate to say that. It has me so disheartened and I cannot ignore it. Almost about to loose my mind here and sale the darn thing but in a way I’m trying to think of solutions or something here.

I’ve posted a new YouTube video attached below. I’m not trying to impress anyone in the video lol I’m just hitting a couple notes and letting it ring out so the buzzing and/or rattling can be heard. I’m using a light overdrive in the video but this also happens in clean at certain times and/or settings.

https://youtu.be/eOy1LRezoVA

Maybe this will sort of help. Exactly what you hear is exactly what I’m hearing. This is not the microphone or anything but exactly what I’m hearing.

Thanks :)
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liaztraht
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Re: Rattling/crackling Orange CR120 and Crush Pro 4x12 - UPDATE & Short Video

Post by liaztraht » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:35 am

That's the same sound as mine. I've grown used to it. Still looking for a fix.
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Lyric
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Re: Rattling/crackling Orange CR120 and Crush Pro 4x12 - UPDATE & Short Video

Post by Lyric » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:13 am

liaztraht wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:35 am
That's the same sound as mine. I've grown used to it. Still looking for a fix.
Oh my, I’m gonna drive myself nuts here with this knowing it’s just what it is. Solo you have the matching 4x12 cab? I keep thinking speakers but like what was previously said it’s possibly the head input overload. I wouldn’t even know where to start here.

I gotta admit I can be a perfectionist at times and it’s one of those things that just drive you crazy. Kind of like that rattling in the car you can’t seem to locate and your worried but your significant other says turn the stereo up lol. Except with this it is the music. I’m not sure if there is a fix or mod or something. Wondering if Orange even knows of this issue, hmm.

There is a Orange TH100 up the road in great condition for $800 and I could probably sale this at Guitar Center for about $200 but not sure if I wanna go back with tubes again. Decisions decisions :(
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