Thunderverb50 Schematic The Same As?

[pedecamp]

In another thread I just read that the OR15 has almost the identical schematic as the Rockerverb minus a few values. Makes me wonder if the Thunderverb schematic resembles anything else. My amp is very dark, it would be nice to change a few values to brighten it up so I don't have to use a treble boost pedal any more.

[Jondog]

The amp overall is dark or a particular channel? It's not the same as a Rockerverb. It's unique to itself. Do you need less bass or just more treble? The last gain stage on each channel have 100uf cathode bypass caps. You could try 22uf there instead to remove some of the lower frequencies. C37 (channel b)and C38 (channel a)

[pedecamp]

The amp overall is dark or a particular channel? It's not the same as a Rockerverb. It's unique to itself. Do you need less bass or just more treble? The last gain stage on each channel have 100uf cathode bypass caps. You could try 22uf there instead to remove some of the lower frequencies. C37 (channel b)and C38 (channel a)

The amp overall is muddy and affects both channels. When playing a bridge pickup it sounds like I'm playing a neck pickup, it would probably make a great bass amp LOL. I'm not sure if I need less bass or more treble but I fix it setting an SD-1 OD as a clean boost with the tone max'd to treble. So I was wondering if the TV50 schematic resembled any other Orange schematic, I don't know how to read them myself. I don't want to guess on any of this, if I can figure out a reference point and a definitive fix then I'll find a local tech to make the adjustment for me. I also wonder if something is wrong with my amp, every video demo I see of the TV50 doesn't sound like my amp.

[Jondog]

It has many common preamp circuit configurations found across the Orange line, it's just put together in its own form. Looking at it, if it were me, I'd start at those 100uf caps. That's a uncommon value in most guitar amps. In fact the only other Orange amp (I know of) that has that value on a cathode is the AD200, a bass amp. That cap will allow very low frequencies in the signal, below guitar frequencies. A 22uf would be a common Orange amp value. The first two gain stages on channel b of the TV have 22uf, channel A 10uf. If you put the third gain stage cathode cap at 22uf and the 2nd stage cathode cap at 4.7uf, you have a circuit resembling the Rocker 30 preamp (minus changing the cathode resistors too, 3.3k on the 2nd gain stage, 1.5k on the 3rd stage.) but I'd probably leave them as they are. That's where I'd start with the TV to keep it in the "Orange" range of voicing. The signal caps are all pretty common values used across the Orange line. The power amp is pretty well the same as a Rockerverb 50. The "attenuator" is pretty much just a post phase inverter master volume, as used in the AD series and Tiny Terror.

[pedecamp]

It has many common preamp circuit configurations found across the Orange line, it's just put together in its own form. Looking at it, if it were me, I'd start at those 100uf caps. That's a uncommon value in most guitar amps. In fact the only other Orange amp (I know of) that has that value on a cathode is the AD200, a bass amp. That cap will allow very low frequencies in the signal, below guitar frequencies. A 22uf would be a common Orange amp value. The first two gain stages on channel b of the TV have 22uf, channel A 10uf. If you put the third gain stage cathode cap at 22uf and the 2nd stage cathode cap at 4.7uf, you have a circuit resembling the Rocker 30 preamp (minus changing the cathode resistors too, 3.3k on the 2nd gain stage, 1.5k on the 3rd stage.) but I'd probably leave them as they are. That's where I'd start with the TV to keep it in the "Orange" range of voicing. The signal caps are all pretty common values used across the Orange line. The power amp is pretty well the same as a Rockerverb 50. The "attenuator" is pretty much just a post phase inverter master volume, as used in the AD series and Tiny Terror.

Thanks for your input on this Jon. So this is what you're saying to change it to resemble the Rocker:

Channel A:
1st stage 10uf
2nd stage 10uf change to 4.7uf
3rd stage 100uf change to 22uf (c38)

Channel B:
1st stage 22uf
2nd stage 22uf change to 4.7uf
3rd stage 100uf change to 22uf (c37)

What did you mean when you said: "minus changing the cathode resistors too, 3.3k on the 2nd gain stage, 1.5k on the 3rd stage"

[Jondog]

It has many common preamp circuit configurations found across the Orange line, it's just put together in its own form. Looking at it, if it were me, I'd start at those 100uf caps. That's a uncommon value in most guitar amps. In fact the only other Orange amp (I know of) that has that value on a cathode is the AD200, a bass amp. That cap will allow very low frequencies in the signal, below guitar frequencies. A 22uf would be a common Orange amp value. The first two gain stages on channel b of the TV have 22uf, channel A 10uf. If you put the third gain stage cathode cap at 22uf and the 2nd stage cathode cap at 4.7uf, you have a circuit resembling the Rocker 30 preamp (minus changing the cathode resistors too, 3.3k on the 2nd gain stage, 1.5k on the 3rd stage.) but I'd probably leave them as they are. That's where I'd start with the TV to keep it in the "Orange" range of voicing. The signal caps are all pretty common values used across the Orange line. The power amp is pretty well the same as a Rockerverb 50. The "attenuator" is pretty much just a post phase inverter master volume, as used in the AD series and Tiny Terror.

Thanks for your input on this Jon. So this is what you're saying to change it to resemble the Rocker:

Channel A:
1st stage 10uf
2nd stage 10uf change to 4.7uf
3rd stage 100uf change to 22uf (c38)

Channel B:
1st stage 22uf
2nd stage 22uf change to 4.7uf
3rd stage 100uf change to 22uf (c37)

What did you mean when you said: "minus changing the cathode resistors too, 3.3k on the 2nd gain stage, 1.5k on the 3rd stage"

The cathode cap/resistors on the Rocker are:
1st stage 22uf/1.5k
2nd stage 4.7uf/3.3k
3rd stage 22uf/1.5k

TV is
Ch. A
1st 10uf/1.5k
2nd 10uf/2.2k
3rd 100uf/820 ohm

Ch. B
1st 22uf/1.5k
2nd 22uf/2.2k
3rd 100uf/820 ohm

What I meant by the resistors is you could leave them as is, to maintain the Thunderverbs feel as those resistors control the bias of each gain stage. Changing the resistors to Rocker values is ok to do if you want to experiment. Other than those cathodes, the preamp is pretty much the same as the Rocker, Channel b has one different signal cap (4.7nf instead of 2.2nf) after the 2nd gain stage, probably because it's a darker channel. Tone stack is obviously different on channel b too. Channel A tone stack is very similar to the Rocker.

[pedecamp]

It has many common preamp circuit configurations found across the Orange line, it's just put together in its own form. Looking at it, if it were me, I'd start at those 100uf caps. That's a uncommon value in most guitar amps. In fact the only other Orange amp (I know of) that has that value on a cathode is the AD200, a bass amp. That cap will allow very low frequencies in the signal, below guitar frequencies. A 22uf would be a common Orange amp value. The first two gain stages on channel b of the TV have 22uf, channel A 10uf. If you put the third gain stage cathode cap at 22uf and the 2nd stage cathode cap at 4.7uf, you have a circuit resembling the Rocker 30 preamp (minus changing the cathode resistors too, 3.3k on the 2nd gain stage, 1.5k on the 3rd stage.) but I'd probably leave them as they are. That's where I'd start with the TV to keep it in the "Orange" range of voicing. The signal caps are all pretty common values used across the Orange line. The power amp is pretty well the same as a Rockerverb 50. The "attenuator" is pretty much just a post phase inverter master volume, as used in the AD series and Tiny Terror.

Thanks for your input on this Jon. So this is what you're saying to change it to resemble the Rocker:

Channel A:
1st stage 10uf
2nd stage 10uf change to 4.7uf
3rd stage 100uf change to 22uf (c38)

Channel B:
1st stage 22uf
2nd stage 22uf change to 4.7uf
3rd stage 100uf change to 22uf (c37)

What did you mean when you said: "minus changing the cathode resistors too, 3.3k on the 2nd gain stage, 1.5k on the 3rd stage"

The cathode cap/resistors on the Rocker are:
1st stage 22uf/1.5k
2nd stage 4.7uf/3.3k
3rd stage 22uf/1.5k

TV is
Ch. A
1st 10uf/1.5k
2nd 10uf/2.2k
3rd 100uf/820 ohm

Ch. B
1st 22uf/1.5k
2nd 22uf/2.2k
3rd 100uf/820 ohm

What I meant by the resistors is you could leave them as is, to maintain the Thunderverbs feel as those resistors control the bias of each gain stage. Changing the resistors to Rocker values is ok to do if you want to experiment. Other than those cathodes, the preamp is pretty much the same as the Rocker, Channel b has one different signal cap (4.7nf instead of 2.2nf) after the 2nd gain stage, probably because it's a darker channel. Tone stack is obviously different on channel b too. Channel A tone stack is very similar to the Rocker.

So what do you suggest, I change the values of the 2nd and 3rd stages on both channels? Or just only do the 3rd stage on both channels?

[Jondog]

Guess I should add that when I talk about the Rocker, I'm only talking the dirty channel. If it were me, I'd probably do the 2nd and 3rd stage. You could even just do the 2nd stage, that would probably make more of a change than just doing the third stage. There's more of a difference going from 22uf to 4.7uf than there is 100uf to 22uf. I can't say you'll like the changes better and without hearing the amp I don't know what you consider muddy. It's much about experimenting and that's where mods are created I can just say that would bring it into the Rocker preamp design.

[pedecamp]

Guess I should add that when I talk about the Rocker, I'm only talking the dirty channel. If it were me, I'd probably do the 2nd and 3rd stage. You could even just do the 2nd stage, that would probably make more of a change than just doing the third stage. There's more of a difference going from 22uf to 4.7uf than there is 100uf to 22uf. I can't say you'll like the changes better and without hearing the amp I don't know what you consider muddy. It's much about experimenting and that's where mods are created I can just say that would bring it into the Rocker preamp design.

I gotta find a Rocker to try for reference and see if I like them. Thanks again for your ideas.