orange speaker / laptop hybrid setup

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Trixman2
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orange speaker / laptop hybrid setup

Post by Trixman2 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:23 am

the following configuration is not traditional. open mind for this configuration. i need the help from the people who know the super technical stuff about wiring speakers to help me create this setup. I am not an expert in that department and don't want to blow my speakers. i own 2 brand new ppc212 cabinets. what i wish to do is rather than use a orange head to power them. id like to use a laptop running amplitube 4 software as a virtual host for amplifiers (running it with speaker modeling disabled only using it for amp and stomp fx models) and use the real ppc212 cabs as the speakers.the guitar will go into 1 of the inputs on the apogee soundcard, the laptop will output the amp modeling and stops out through the apogee duet soundcard with two outputs coming out of the sound card, going into a clean power amplifier designed for PA speakers (If i use an actual amp head be it orange or any other brand. there will be coloration and the point is to avoid coloration so the software can model the tonalities of the amp chosen virtually) i am able to set all of this up. my issue comes at the power amp stage. because the ppc212 speakers are 16 ohm.power amps are typically 4 or 8 ohm. I'm aware of the ability and have read literature on here about rewiring the cabinets to 4ohm. allowing this setup to theoretically work. this is where i have question and my lack of wisdom in wiring and impedance begins. when you wire the ppc 212 to 4 ohm. does its 120 watt capacity change? i am looking at this power amp

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000QCJR6K/re ... B000MYFHZC" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

wich i think is a perfect fit since it has 2 outputs and at 4 ohms gives 100 watts out of each output (just under their 120 watts capacity) allowing me to connect the 2 outputs from the sound card to the 2 inputs on the amp. then the two out puts from the amp to the 2 cabs providing a stereo signal. something i desire for fx reasons. my concern is that if the changing of the ohm to 4 ohm affects its ability to handle 120 and lowers it under 100 i could blow the speakers.

the purpose of this setup is to recall the amp and fx section presets (orange, mesa etc) we use in our recordings (using amplitude 4 or any other vst) because we record virtually not with hardware. but get that real speaker sound wich not only provides a more realistic, live performance on stage, rather than running the guitar just virtually to the house and it come out of the PA. we are a live electronic act and want to blend the organic feel of real guitar speaker tone on stage with the rest of our digital sound.
what are your thoughts.
has anyone done a setup like this?
any tips on the amp i should use?
i thank you in advance for any help
also any pictures of how to wire them at 4 ohms would be helpful. I've seen drawn diagrams and they are a bit confusing for my n00bness.

bclaire
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Re: orange speaker / laptop hybrid setup

Post by bclaire » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:19 am

It should be easy. Google cabinet wiring and you'll see. A 2X12 16 ohm cabinet is two 8 ohm speakers wired in series. All you have to do is rewire it to parallel. Then it will be a 4 ohm cab. Power handling won't change with the wiring change.

It might be tricky to get the sounds you want since the software adds speaker coloration and you'll be using guitar speakers when the general thinking is to use speakers that accurately represent the sound from the software without adding their own color. But you should be able to get it to work - let us know how you get on.

Trixman2
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Re: orange speaker / laptop hybrid setup

Post by Trixman2 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:27 am

bclaire wrote:It should be easy. Google cabinet wiring and you'll see. A 2X12 16 ohm cabinet is two 8 ohm speakers wired in series. All you have to do is rewire it to parallel. Then it will be a 4 ohm cab. Power handling won't change with the wiring change.

It might be tricky to get the sounds you want since the software adds speaker coloration and you'll be using guitar speakers when the general thinking is to use speakers that accurately represent the sound from the software without adding their own color. But you should be able to get it to work - let us know how you get on.

Thanks for the information. Wonderful thing about amplitube 4 in particular is you can bypass speaker emulation leaving only the amp heads and any stomp boxes you choose. Aside from that you can do things you can't do easily in real life such as use an orange head with the eq stage of a Marshall cab or any other for that matter. The combos are endless. If you couldn't bypass speaker emulation i wouldn't even go through the hastle.
Hopefully I can find some photos of it wired parallel. They skimatic style images I've found I have trouble with. Thanks again. I'll post some pictures of the rig when I get it running.

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Re: orange speaker / laptop hybrid setup

Post by bclaire » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:34 pm

An easy way to think of it is, in series one wire comes from the output jack to one speaker goes through that connects to the next speaker and the final wire goes back to the jack. In parallel, two wires come from one side of the jack to go to the same + or - on each speaker, and then two wires connect to each speakers other terminals.

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Re: orange speaker / laptop hybrid setup

Post by bclaire » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:35 pm

Image

Image

Trixman2
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Re: orange speaker / laptop hybrid setup

Post by Trixman2 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:48 pm

bclaire wrote:Image

Image
Thanks for the explanation. I understand now. I guess the only thing that. Needs to be changed is adding an extra cable to each of the jacks.

liaztraht
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Re: orange speaker / laptop hybrid setup

Post by liaztraht » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:44 am

Is your power amp solidstate? If so, you can run any speaker cab of equal or greater impedance, provided they can handle the wattage. Ss power amps have a minimum impedance that you cannot go below, so at 4 ohm minimum, you could run 4 16ohm cabs in series at 128 ohms, but that would be unnecessarily dumb. It's just an example.

Really no need to rewire. While running into higher ohms may reduce overall output a bit, that 100 watts per cab is more than enough. I run my 120 watt crush pro through a 16 ohm cab, and halfway up the volume drowns out the band.
My cat loves the Orange tone!

Image

Trixman2
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Re: orange speaker / laptop hybrid setup

Post by Trixman2 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:15 pm

liaztraht wrote:Is your power amp solidstate? If so, you can run any speaker cab of equal or greater impedance, provided they can handle the wattage. Ss power amps have a minimum impedance that you cannot go below, so at 4 ohm minimum, you could run 4 16ohm cabs in series at 128 ohms, but that would be unnecessarily dumb. It's just an example.

Really no need to rewire. While running into higher ohms may reduce overall output a bit, that 100 watts per cab is more than enough. I run my 120 watt crush pro through a 16 ohm cab, and halfway up the volume drowns out the band.
I have decided to go with the art sla1 seems to be even better noiseless. Also people in the reviews on amazon are using with with eleven racks and line 6 pods for this very same reason. I've looked over the tech specs but it dosnt say anything about solid state. It's original design is to power passive studio monitors but works for this also.
bclaire wrote:Image

Image
I have a question since liaz mentioned how loud 120 watts is. If say I send 1 channel of 100 watts to one cab and the. Daisy chain from the cab to the other does that cut the watts in half? Also he mentioned if it's solid state which I'm not sure the art sla1 dosnt say anywhere if it's solid just that it's ment to power passive studio monitors. Is rewire unnecessary?

liaztraht
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Re: orange speaker / laptop hybrid setup

Post by liaztraht » Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:35 pm

The art power amp doesn't have the out put connections you need. It needs the quarter inch output speaker jacks. The first one had it.

And it doesn't matter how loud a ss amp can get at a specified wattage. What's important about solidstate and watts is the amount of clean headroom. Which is basically how loud you can go before you hit the amps maximum output capabilities and horribly distort your audio signal. More watts more headroom typically.

The first amp you linked seemed fine for the application.
My cat loves the Orange tone!

Image

Trixman2
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Re: orange speaker / laptop hybrid setup

Post by Trixman2 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:13 pm

liaztraht wrote:The art power amp doesn't have the out put connections you need. It needs the quarter inch output speaker jacks. The first one had it.

And it doesn't matter how loud a ss amp can get at a specified wattage. What's important about solidstate and watts is the amount of clean headroom. Which is basically how loud you can go before you hit the amps maximum output capabilities and horribly distort your audio signal. More watts more headroom typically.

The first amp you linked seemed fine for the application.

Thank you for that insight. Much appreciated

Eldans
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Re: orange speaker / laptop hybrid setup

Post by Eldans » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:28 pm

Hi, I'm new to orange amps and I'm the proud owner of a CR35 LDX an have another question concerning this subject. I play in a church band and love this amp for its size and power being just perfect for what I'm doing. However, on some of the louder songs, I push it pretty hard. A friend has given me a small speaker cabinet with a Celstion 12" 8 ohm. I would like to use it to both raise up the amp so the knobs are at a more user friendly height, and also relieve some of the strain on the 10" in the amp. There would be nothing wrong with adding an extension jack for parallel connection to this 8 ohm 12" would there? I'm assuming the combo in parallel would result in 6 ohms? I would think that's close enough to not affect output volume much with the increased 100db efficiency of the 12" and be above min required ohms for the amp. But not sure. I would add a label to the amp. "EXTENSION CABINET MUST BE 8ohms or greater. Will that work?

liaztraht
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Re: orange speaker / laptop hybrid setup

Post by liaztraht » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:18 pm

In solid state amps, the minimum ohm rating is pretty set in stone. Going under would most likely kill the amp pretty quick.
I used to have a spider amp that I let people use that didn't bring their amp, modded with external jacks. Last guy to use it plugged it into a 16 and 8 ohm cab, which is about 5.33 ohms. Amp needed 8 minimum. Blew in 30 seconds of playing, and caught fire. I chuckled because it was a terrible amp.

I wouldn't risk it.
I would instead put in a switching jack that cuts off the internal speaker when plugged in.

And if I remember correctly, all Orange ss amps are 8 minimum.
My cat loves the Orange tone!

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Re: orange speaker / laptop hybrid setup

Post by bclaire » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:02 pm

Eldans wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:28 pm
Hi, I'm new to orange amps and I'm the proud owner of a CR35 LDX an have another question concerning this subject. I play in a church band and love this amp for its size and power being just perfect for what I'm doing. However, on some of the louder songs, I push it pretty hard. A friend has given me a small speaker cabinet with a Celstion 12" 8 ohm. I would like to use it to both raise up the amp so the knobs are at a more user friendly height, and also relieve some of the strain on the 10" in the amp. There would be nothing wrong with adding an extension jack for parallel connection to this 8 ohm 12" would there? I'm assuming the combo in parallel would result in 6 ohms? I would think that's close enough to not affect output volume much with the increased 100db efficiency of the 12" and be above min required ohms for the amp. But not sure. I would add a label to the amp. "EXTENSION CABINET MUST BE 8ohms or greater. Will that work?
Yeah, don't do it. That will overtax the amp and it could definitely fry...

Eldans
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Re: orange speaker / laptop hybrid setup

Post by Eldans » Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:19 am

Thanks Billy. Our other lead guitarist is doing and it helped his sound a lot. But he's doing it with a tube amp. I know that's a different animal.

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Re: orange speaker / laptop hybrid setup

Post by bclaire » Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:11 am

Eldans wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:19 am
Thanks Billy. Our other lead guitarist is doing and it helped his sound a lot. But he's doing it with a tube amp. I know that's a different animal.
Yeah, probably worse - if he's mismatching impedances with a tube amp he could eventually blow his output transformer which isn't cheap to replace - what kind of amp? Fenders are the only ones that could potentially handle it....

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