Thuderverb50 -Help me choose best tubes -specific goal

[DanchiTV50]

Hi guys!
I am new to this forum and came here to find some technical and experiance answers. Since some of you guys tried alot of different tubes and combinations and know caracteristics and tone of many of them, I have question, how they act in Orange Thunderverb 50. I need to retube my amp and want to get some pretty good informations before shopping...some tubes I know, but don't know how they work in this amp.
I appreciate all of your answers and help. Let's focus on just Thunderverb50 users and very experiance tube users.

Don't be afraid of my long writing, because I need to tell everything about my style of playing and what I like and what I missing on each channel. This will excluded all unnecessary questions and answers on both sides.

So, I try to find tubes which will make this amp a monster for my needs (allready I like it and love it) .

Let's start

1.) I use 6 and 7 string guitars, tuned Drop A (432Hz)
2.) Cab is Custom made loaded with celestion vintage 30 (If I remember we made this cab with the same volume as mesa big one 4x12 cab and we use massive plywood) .This cab produce a very good bass response and my Thunderverb50 allready bites like a bulldog
4.) I using alot of efx pedals trough FX send/return and few behind the guitar input.
5.) I am playing from open cords, one string rhytm grooves (funk bass slap like thing...slow and fast),.. korn style but with more funk inside...and some progresive stuff and sexy rock influence riffs, to hc and hip-hop flow. So some kind of everything together what I was listening in my life...and than trough years of playing I was developing my flow and make my own style of playing in my last 25 years (I am 40 now).

So, I think that with selecting right tubes for each channel, fx, reverb and for gain stages this amp will sing in all his glory.

Channel A:
- good bite for nice clean & robust chrunch rock riffs and when pushing gain around 2-3PM and volume on 3PM amp looses tight bass and get in mess. Other way, Midds are way infront than on channel B...you need to pull it down to 7:30-9AM to be almost the same as on channel B with shape control at 12 (neutral). Treble is somehow ok until you push it to 3pm. Everything above loosing details and starts producing earhurt. So in this channel I would like to have more definition on bass (low end) in gaingstage 2 and 3, because when gain and volume goes over 3 pm amp starts to produce uncontroled maddness...so, a little more details here is needed. In 1 stage of gain I need as clean and still warm as possible that can be used as nice clean and chrunch tones, but when gain goes to 2 to 3rd gain stage I wish to have more difinition in lows and mids that I can play groove riffs with all sexy balls .

Channel B:
I like to have more midds in non position (too dark), because if I turn shape clockwise, to get more midds, than I loose low end after 2 millimeters move from center. So some midds (around 700Hz to 2khz) will be great to add it (nature live to this channel) to give it more usable if combine both channels in drive mode...using drive on both channels in one song . I don't use overdrive/dist. pedals for drive the amp...only for making bad or lo-fi sound tricks... I like amps drive. But I still want to have that big tight bottom end which this channel have... really great with nice low robust difinition...that's why I fall in love with this amp ....just miss some midds

Reverb: not great since is very long. I am using it just to start to hear it and just for micro touch. Here we can not do much with tubes...I gues...or...

FX send/return: I want it as clean and warm as possible and with low noise...since efekt pedals produce it...if you use around 10 pedals you can not escape from the noise. (I have noise supressor but...let's mak it low as possible anyway)

I need to say this. I am not playing very hi distorted metal drive but I more like something that have chrunch/overdrive with just a glue of that heavy distorted type of drive, which I can achieve with B channel with gain turned around 1:30 to max 2:30 pm & with volume from 1:30pm to 4:30pm ...everything above looses that grid an robust balls of this amp, which I really like . Everything up/more is still very very nice almost till the end, but not for my style. The B channel, I also use it as a drive, but when I go past 3pm on volume and drive, starts too get undetailed and to mushy and muddy sound.

So I need LOUD but clean, warm and chrunch when goes to gain stage 2 and also to keep punchy & detailed drive for nice groove playing on one string and chopper style drive vhen strum more strings together (not fzzzzz but frrr ☺) ...and I want to hear every string when playing huge sexy open chords . When you hear harley davidson you hear it ...it's trtrtrtrtr....not fzzfrzzzzfrzzz like other bikes... Robust not too polished...but have al details and tigt sound definition.

I need advice which tubes can I combine to achive what I want and miss in this beast

Try answer to me or give advice like:
- on PI, 1 gain stage, 2,3 gain s. ch A or B, output, fx loop, reverb position try "this" tube because you will than get...and choices from low, mid and high price range of tubes...and why you think that this tube is best choice...talk gain, eq (bass,midd,treb), 3d sound, ...try explain in details. ...or what you think is best choice... bigger price doesn't mean best option. But the goal is to get this amp to another level.

Till now inside was factory fitted: Ruby el34 and PM 12... tubes

Thanx alot for evey answer and help!!!
best regards too all!

....this can be the ultimate thunderverb tube choice post


Danchi

[DanchiTV50]

anyone?

[DanchiTV50]

bump

[Les Paul Lover]

I'm wondering a couple of things.

How old are your current valves and how much have they been played??
Do you really like you TV50?


Unless your valves are really worn out and need replacing, I wouldn't expect a nee set to make a massive difference. There will be differences, but they will more likely be subtle.

However, if your valves are worn out, a new set will bring your amp back to life!

Other notes:

- You can't do old that much to the reverb, its just how it's been designed.
- I've had good luck with JJ valves in the past, my rocker 30 has JJ EL34 and sounds ace, I've recently revalved my AD15 with JJ EL84 and ECC83, it sounds great, my RV50 has JJ 6V6s and sounds great. I've had some Eh, nos Russian valves, and some Harma (lowest gain valves I've had) that were all very nice.
- You might want to try KT77 instead of EL34. They are known to have a little less midrange, tighter bass too. You may or may not like them though. KT77 are a direct replacement for EL34, no modifications required beside bias adjustment.

[Ronnie Robinson]

This sounds to me like it's almost impossible to answer as it's so subjective and your needs are so specific. You don't say whether you have tried new valves , and if you have , what you tried . Personally I like Ehx valves but for me if your valves are 2 years old or older then a new set is where you need to start. JJ's are also popular.

[DanchiTV50]

Ronnie, thanx for first RE

Tubes are older than 2 years, but I didn't play guitar last 2 years as much (most playing bass guitar and drums). But When I was playing I run them almost all the way up, where the real magic starts. yes they need to be changed. I hear sound of tube when I knock on it (one output and several 12's). So full retube is required.

This amp will be retubed first time and i didn't try any other tubes in it yet. I was reading also about tubes this days and what I read, feelings leads me somehow to tung-sol. But today I was searching for knowing more about this PM preamp tubes and Ruby output tubes which was in TV50. What I hear and read about PM was that this tube can be the best choice... but that is just theoretical thing, not practical.

Since I don't have money to spend 300eur to experimenting with tubes, I came here to ask some of tube gurrus and others that try different tubes in TV50 and how amp reacts tonaly with them.

So, mainly I very like robust (bulldog) sound of this amp and what I read about tubes seems that PM & Ruby tubes just do that. Guys that tryed different tubes please correct me, because I just read this and didn't try it in practice. PW said that tubes have 20-30 more output than others. Anyone compare those with ...I don' know...with JJ , tung-sol,...

Are tose Ruby tubes same factory of production as PM? Are PM el34 the same thing as Ruby el34 ? ...Looks the same to me

thanx again
best

[Ronnie Robinson]

Ronnie, thanx for first RE

Tubes are older than 2 years, but I didn't play guitar last 2 years as much (most playing bass guitar and drums). But When I was playing I run them almost all the way up, where the real magic starts. yes they need to be changed. I hear sound of tube when I knock on it (one output and several 12's). So full retube is required.

This amp will be retubed first time and i didn't try any other tubes in it yet. I was reading also about tubes this days and what I read, feelings leads me somehow to tung-sol. But today I was searching for knowing more about this PM preamp tubes and Ruby output tubes which was in TV50. What I hear and read about PM was that this tube can be the best choice... but that is just theoretical thing, not practical.

Since I don't have money to spend 300eur to experimenting with tubes, I came here to ask some of tube gurrus and others that try different tubes in TV50 and how amp reacts tonaly with them.

So, mainly I very like robust (bulldog) sound of this amp and what I read about tubes seems that PM & Ruby tubes just do that. Guys that tryed different tubes please correct me, because I just read this and didn't try it in practice. PW said that tubes have 20-30 more output than others. Anyone compare those with ...I don' know...with JJ , tung-sol,...

Are tose Ruby tubes same factory of production as PM? Are PM el34 the same thing as Ruby el34 ? ...Looks the same to me

thanx again
best

PM tubes are frequently used by Orange for preamp tubes . In the last 10 years with the new Orange amps I've bought new , PM were in the preamp tubes and either Ehx, JJs and Ruby tubes were the power amp tubes .....So this tells me PM tubes are likely to be a 'cheaper,' tube . I've always removed them and put in either JJ, Ehx or tungsol as replacement preamp tubes, all of which have given good results although over the last 2 years have just stuck with Ehx which I really like. I'd buy a decent set of tubes - you might want to consider a matched set of power tubes get them fitted and biased and see how it sounds them. You might well see a big difference.

[DanchiTV50]

now I see Les Paul Lover was first . thanx for RE

Les Paul Lover, tubes are for retubing definitly. I really like everything in this amp...I chose it because of the sound and caracter and I try that everything from marshalls to mesas to whole line of Orange ampsyou name it... I played on all in the same shop in the same day... I did massive shoot out . At the end choosing between rockerverb50 and 100, thunderverb200 and 50 and you not believe it Orange AD200 bass head. At the end almost choose AD200 but I totaly fall in love with B (bulldog) channel on TV50 ... so yes I like this amp alot A and B channel. I just want some live midds on channel B to be little more balanced to A channel and some more headroom in 1 gain stage to have louder clean channel if I needed... so that tubes for gain stage 2 and 3 stays with the same mojo and tube for gain stage 1 have longer clean when you cranck more gain before gain starts making OD.

that's it!

So as far I know and have experience even the same tubes can sound different, if you try them in different positions. I try this for years in my vintage JCM900. I was always try 12ax7 atleast 10 tubes (same brand, same model) to find 4 that work best in each position. And I know differents can be from a little darker and a little more open. At the end is different and it is way better than puting first 4 tubes and this is it. So having options to try different brands and different caracters , since every brand have few different 12ax7 or 12at7 or el34.

Guys, I want to hear your experience with different tubes in TV50 and to hear your findings which tube sound different to other

as I would say... EHX 12ax7 - I hear more midrange and treble than when I put JJ 12ax7 and jj have more tihgt bottom end than EHX...or sims that jj give me more bite or robust sound...and GT 12ax7 have more balanced... so that kind of info I searching for. because EHX 12ax7 will act differen and bring out different sound in marshall tan in orange...and even in differen orange amps will bring out some sound that you might like or not ...bring middrange/bass/presence/hi-hreq. forward or in to back...or some make amp louder, smoother, robust, muddy,...

This kind of info will be mega top from you guys who have TV50.
Other info things I can read on web tubes sites or web tube stores... but I want to hear your expiriance and foundings.

maybe some tube-gurru or tube-tech can share his knowledge how with choosing different tubes I can make this beautiful and to be as perfect as it can for my needs.

thax again to all
best!

[DanchiTV50]

Ronnie why you like EHX more than , PM , JJ and Ruby? What they do better then others? Can you descrube why to you are EHX better sounding. And what do you think about Tung-Sol? I found that some of tubestore sels complete tube KIT right for orangeTV50
https://reverb.com/item/1928398-tung-so ... ax7-12at7w" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PM tubes
Also I checked this link and ... check it out. there is also video about this tubes. And this new 12ax7 as described in info looks interesting. Anyone try tube PM ECC83T "trustwothy" already?
http://www.pmguitartubes.com/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PW said that they use new technology for matching output tubes that through time their pair or quart loose somehow identical the same. that's very interesting and well thinking and good idea.

[Ronnie Robinson]

For me your overthinking it.


Entirely down to personal preference I've had good results also with JJs , harms and tungsol - I'm sure many love the PM tubes..I'd just get a new set of whatever you decide and take it from there.

[DanchiTV50]

thanx for your answers Ronnie.

But I will still search more about different tubes because I know that they make differece in EQ coloration, agressiveness, punch,robustness, drive... For some people this is overhealming and they just put some tubes that other say that are ok...but didn't say why exactly they choose those tubes...without exact eplanation about differences. If I thinking now , I was getting more info on tube web shops in info below each tube, than I tought I will get here on orange forum. To me this kind of infos means alot, because I know how hard and how much time I spand on that my old vintage JCM900, that at the end sounds like no ones marshall... with just bias control changing, treble mod and with trying different tubes in different positions. Tubes make difference, that's why is important which tube in which amp for different playing and styles of music. And this kind of searching can cost you alot of time and money. So, I tought that maybe is someone here or maybe more of Orange guys that try this allready and have some info and knowledge to share...looks like I need to look elsewhere... tube shops and tube technicians and gurrus...or tube forum if exist . This kind of simple answers maybe work for some starters. Otherwise anyway you will go to the technician because of biasing tubes and he will tell you anyway what are options...He will not complicate and try to make it simple (if you don't ask for more specific questions), put inside first tubes from his box and you will be happy. But I want more than that. So searching for info and knowledge about tubes is for me a good think with a reason. And if I spand time for knowledge before than I can spand maybe 1 hour at tech guy...other way I can few hours and that cost money...and also tech doesn't have always many different tubes in stock, so you need to tell him which ones you want to order...so if i try 10 different tubes that cost me again alot of money. And than you see why is important to get as much info before as you can.

Thanx guys anyway for taking your time for answering to me and trying to explain.
If anyone have some really interesting info about tubes and thunderverb than please send post. In the mean time I will try to find info elsewhere.

it's all good I just looking for info
best regards

[DanchiTV50]

Yes this kind of info is what I looking for. and now I just need to find info about ruby el34 vs tung sol el34 vs some other and I will know which way to go. I need just found that kind of info with 12ax7/ecc83/5575/at7/au7 from jj, tun-sol, ruby, PM and some other.

here is link if someone like to read and see how different are some of output tubes.
http://www.thetubestore.com/Resources/P ... be-Reviews" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[pedecamp]

I own a TV50 and a small collection of tubes. In my experience I found little difference if any between different preamp and power tubes in this amp. If you want to tweak your sound you'll have to look at speakers, pedals, pickups. These same tubes in other amps make a big difference, in the TV50 they make no difference.