Rocker 30 not outputting at full power?

[rangerofheaven]

I love my Rocker 30. I've had a tumultuous relationship with it, but after swapping tubes, guitars, and an EQ pedal, it has nearly the perfect sound.

Lately I've been noticing that sometimes, it doesn't seem nearly as loud or present as others. I recently replaced the tubes, and it sounded much louder and in your face. Then after awhile(maybe a couple weeks tops) it started to do the same thing. Replaced them again and it was louder again, but then seemed to taper off later.

It's difficult to pinpoint the difference sometimes, because when it's not at "full power" it's still extremely loud. My ears have trouble differentiating between blaringly loud and almost blaringly loud. Only usually in the mix of my band do I notice it, and it's still somewhat subtle.

The last show I played, I had several friends tell me I should turn up only to tell them I'm already at max. I usually run it with the gain at 12'o'clock and the master cranked.

I have several different pairs of tubes that I change around in it that are all nearly brand new, so I don't think it would be a tube issue. I'm just wondering what exactly the problem would be. I never hear any crackling or anything odd, and I always warm up my tubes before use.

Would really love to try and fix this because I'm in love with this amp!

[a.hun]

Hi rangerofheaven.

Do you ever clean your jacks plugs and sockets? Valve bases? Rotary pots? If not that might well help. The contacts can tarnish and poor electrical contacts can cause all sorts of problems from drop offs as you are having through to crackles and even squeals.

Basically you just need some electrical cleaner spray. There are two types, with or without lube. I'd buy both. For jacks you can use either though I'd normally use a silicone lubed electrical cleaner for switches, pots and contacts. Just spray the stuff onto a jack plug and insert / remove it from the socket a few times. All sockets. Probably the most important are the speaker outputs but of course you should NEVER do them with the amp powered up.

Always use an un-lubed contact cleaner for the high voltage valve sockets / pins though to prevent build up of conductive gunk. Be especially careful when re-inserting preamp valves as there is no centre guide pin to align them right. They just have a gap in the pins which has to line up with the gap in the socket. Never ever force a valve in or you may bend the pins. (If you ever do that you need to be careful about how you bend them back!)
http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.p ... 92#p621792" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Always use a lubed one for pots though or they will probably seize up.
http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.p ... ct+cleaner" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I just view it as routine maintenance and do it once in a while for all cable jacks and amp / instrument sockets, especially before important gigs or sessions. Tend not to do pots or valve bases so much unless I'm actually having problems.

I'd try that first anyway. If it doesn't help than we'll think again so let us know.


Andy.

[Les Paul Lover]

Are you 100% sure you occasionally lose some power?

I'm wondering if your amp simply isn't powerful enough for your situation ? Have you considered getting it mic'ed through the PA ?

[Jondog]

One thing about the Rocker is the tubes run pretty hot and I've had a couple pairs of tubes wear out quickly in it. Be good to find a matched pair of tubes with a suitable rating for the amp and stick with that rating. Be good to take it to a tech who can do this for you as well as make sure the screen grid and bias resistors are in good shape.

[0000]

Running the Master Volume on FULL, and using the Gain as your volume is a great way to make an amp sound amazing, but also the quickest way to wear it out... mainly the power tubes, but certainly over stuff too.

You need a higher wattage amp, from the sounds of it.

[rangerofheaven]

Running the Master Volume on FULL, and using the Gain as your volume is a great way to make an amp sound amazing, but also the quickest way to wear it out... mainly the power tubes, but certainly over stuff too.

You need a higher wattage amp, from the sounds of it.

You really think so? I thought I've heard of other people running this amp the same way with great results.

The thing is, if I run the amp any other way, I'm not nearly loud enough. I kept thinking something was wrong with my amp because people describe this amp as being louder than most 50 watters.

I even tried running it with an Orange 2x12 closed, but it didn't really make the amp seem louder, just sort of spread out and changed the sound.

I love the sound of this amp. After some pick-up adjustments, tube swapping, and an EQ pedal, I pretty much get the perfect tone out of it. It's just not loud enough.

I tried an OR50 for a little while, and while the tone was similar it definitely wasn't any louder.

What do you guys suggest?

[jontheid]

Running the Master Volume on FULL, and using the Gain as your volume is a great way to make an amp sound amazing, but also the quickest way to wear it out... mainly the power tubes, but certainly over stuff too.

I disagree with this statement. Sure, running a Class AB amp flat-out is going to wear out the output tubes quicker, but that is just about all. It won't wear out the tubes in a couple of weeks, unless the tubes are duff. It wont affect the preamp tubes at all, and I reckon the transformers on the Rocker 30 are well up to sustained abuse. The natural channel doesn't even have a master volume!

To the O.P. - what power tubes are you using in your Rocker?
What are the other guys in the band using?
If an OR50 is no louder (as you say) maybe your band is super-loud and you just need a huge amp, and earplugs.

[a.hun]

Nothing wrong with running the MV fully open, nothing at all. Most decently designed valve amps should have no problems surviving any settings you choose to use, as long as speakers are properly attached and up to handling it.

The wear on the power valves will depend on the actual power levels they are being asked to put out, and for how long. The MV control doesn't really turn up the power valves themselves in any way, only the bias setting does that. The volume control just increases the signal which they then amplify by a set amount. So it doesn't control how much they amplify a signal by, more how much signal they are actually amplifying. Different things!

The preamp settings will also have an effect on how much signal is being amplified. It is the balance of pre and master volumes, tone controls, and of course the signal levels at the amp input from your guitar (/ FX) which'll determine how loud things get. All that (including the set bias level) and sheer hours of use determine how much power valve wear you get, simple as that.


Did you try my other suggestions rangerofheaven? No real change? If so I'm maybe wondering about a bias problem maybe wearing the power valves out unusually fast. The R.30 is a hot running cathode biased class AB amp, and like of those all it'll be harder on the power valves than cooler biased AB amps. That is a given. But even so a pair of decent EL34s should be lasting a good few hundred hours fairly hard use before noticeable performance drop off.

Bias is of course just like a baseline trim setting for the power valves. Bit like an engine's idling speed setting. Normally with cathode biased amps you don't have to worry too much about bias settings as there is some built in self adjustment. However if the bias on a particular amp is too hot for some reason than chugging through power valves in a much shorter time could well happen.

You know a good valve tech who can do a simple bias check on the amp for you? Might just be a bad resistor or other small component causing expensive and annoying valve wear plus poor performance. If so that'd be an easy and fairly inexpensive fix which would see the amp healthy and keep the power valves healthy too. Could also be bad filter caps, a little more expensive, but still not a disaster.

Could also be quite a number of other things...
http://www.geofex.com/ampdbug/lowpower.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Take it to a tech I'd say. You could also contact Orange themselves for advice. It'll be well out of warranty I guess, but they are still normally very helpful.


Andy.

[rangerofheaven]

What do you guys think about speaker efficiency?

I tried running it with an PPC212 Closed-Back, and I really didn't like the way it sounded. Bassier, but lacking a lot of depth in the mid and treble , I'm wondering if maybe a PPC212 Open would be more to my liking?

Not only do I have trouble hearing myself, but my drummer does too, and I'm wondering if more open backed speakers would mean more sound dispersion in the room?

It's just frustrating how I'm barely loud enough. I mean, I'm ALMOST there, but just lacking a little extra oomph.

[a.hun]

That is more about sound spread than efficiency. If you want to (dramatically) improve the sound spread of a 2x12 across the stage and audience than simply run it on it's side with the speakers vertically. Won't make it any louder but the sound spread will be much more even.

An open backed cab would also much improve sound spread. (I prefer them myself for that reason!)

Still don't know if there is something actually up with your amp though. Sounds like that might still need investigating / fixing first..


Andy.