Micro terror cutting out at high volume/gain

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Heffe213
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Micro terror cutting out at high volume/gain

Post by Heffe213 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:04 pm

Hi all! New Orange owner here, I have a couple very good combos (fender hot rod deluxe and peavey classic 30) but I have had a 212 cab with two 8 ohm celestion 70/80 speakers in it sitting around for the longest. I wanted to get into the orange sound so I tried the micro terror as an entry level solution after checking out all the reviews. It sounded like a winning option! Then came the problem.

I have the cab wired at 16 ohms . It sounds a little mid rangy and I wanted more oomph so I rewired it parallel for 4 ohms. It sounded glorious until I passed half power on either master volume or gain. Once that threshold is passed it cuts out horribly, I am worried the micro terror may be bad? I wired it back to series and 16 ohms and the problem went away.. But I am back to the weaker, quieter, lamer tone.

You all think I may have a bad micro terror? Not sure what to do...any ideas would be welcomed. Thanks all!
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a.hun
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Re: Micro terror cutting out at high volume/gain

Post by a.hun » Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:02 pm

Hi Heffe213, and welcome!

Wel the main thing that changed was your cab wiring. Sure that a bad solder joint / contact wasn't maybe the problem? Seems possible given the story.


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

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In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

0000
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Re: Micro terror cutting out at high volume/gain

Post by 0000 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:12 pm

Let's figure this one out...

- Your amp was working fine with the stock cab.
- You mucked around with your cab and rewired it, thus changing the ohm rating and who knows what else.
- The amp stopped working properly when plugged into the altered cab.
- You returned the cab to original wiring and the amp starts working correctly with the cab.

... and you're thinking it's a problem with the amp being "bad"?

Seems pretty obvious what the problem is.
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jontheid
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Re: Micro terror cutting out at high volume/gain

Post by jontheid » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:11 pm

Seems pretty obvious what the problem is.
What is the problem then exactly?
Generally speaking, miswired cabs are unlikley to 'sound glorious'.

Are you saying the Micro Terror shouldn't be used with a 4 Ohm cab?
The Micro Terror speaker output is rated for a minimum 4 Ohms.
However, other users have found the same problems as the OP when using the Micro Terror with 4 Ohm cabs.
Please see post #35 on this page.
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/squawk- ... ror-2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This post states
When I put this amp into the 4 ohm jack, being a 4 ohm amp...you would think that it would be running at Optimum, cause that is the spec right?..wrong. If you Put this amp all the way to 10 gain and volume etc..like some vids on YouTube,..It crackles and spits and the speakers cut out.
So maybe the problem is the amp just doesn't work well with cabs less than 8 Ohms, even though Orange state that a 4 Ohm minimum load should be fine.

Cheers
Jon

jontheid
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Re: Micro terror cutting out at high volume/gain

Post by jontheid » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:20 pm

Also see post #14 on this page:

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... ?t=1195010" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Which states:
Mine also wont run at 4 ohms with the gain way up without cutting out. According to Orange if you push the volume and gain a lot it can overdrive the SS power amp at 4 ohm, so I basically just run mine at 8 ohm.
Interestingly on that same page other users say they are running their Micro Terrors into 4 Ohm loads without problems.

jontheid
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Re: Micro terror cutting out at high volume/gain

Post by jontheid » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:31 pm

Check the comments on this youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=kr7ysvCsSzw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They are using a Micro Terror with a 1960 Marshall 4x12, and found the amp cutting out using the 16 Ohm setting . . . .
we were useing a marshall 1960 cab on a 8ohms setting we tried it in the 16 ohms and its works but when you turn up volume it can't handle it so the sound starts cutting out badly so i definitely recommend keeping it on 4 or 8 both sound great and have the same output :)
Plot thickens etc.

Jon

Heffe213
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Re: Micro terror cutting out at high volume/gain

Post by Heffe213 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:37 am

Yes trust me I retraced my steps several times before posting here and there were no bad joints. After posting here I found similar posts on the 4 ohm problems and looked deeper into it. I rewired back to parallel even though series is working fine, albeit with lesser tone quality. In 4 ohm mode this thing really sounds so much better. Honestly with the master at about 3 and the gain about 7 there are no cut outs and the volume is just about as loud as maxed out on both in 16 ohm mode. I even just hooked up one 8 ohm speaker, once with each in the cab without issue. Not sure what else to do though. I am loving the terror even with the issues but really feel I shouldn't have to. Wish I was one of the lucky ones who say a 4 ohm load was no issue!
2014 Gibson Les Paul Futura
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2013 Gibson SGJ
2010 Godin Session

Orange OR15 w/ PPC212OB
Peavey Classic 30
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http://www.charmschooldropouts.com

jontheid
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Re: Micro terror cutting out at high volume/gain

Post by jontheid » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:22 am

I've dug a little deeper into this and I think one element to this may be the Celestion Seventy 80 speakers you are using.

Remember, speaker impedance varies with frequency.
Here's a chart for speaker impedance vs frequency for an 8 ohm speaker (just to show how it varies).

Image

As you can see, it spends a fair amount of time presenting an impedance of less than 8 ohms to the amp.

Now, back to the Celestion Seventy 80.

Of all the speakers here : http://celestion.com/category/4/guitar/size/3/12%22/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; the Seventy 80 has the lowest DC impedance for an 8 ohm speaker, at 6.1 Ohms. Unfortunately there are no charts to see how this varies with frequency.

Maybe the Micro Terror just can't cope with this, which is why your amp struggles to drive it at '4 ohms'.
Maybe the other users that don't have so much of a problem at '4 ohms' are using other speakers that don't have such a low DC impedance.

Just a thought.
Jon

Heffe213
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Re: Micro terror cutting out at high volume/gain

Post by Heffe213 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:05 pm

Wow Jon, an extremely plausible scenario. I really appreciate you digging into it that much, I never thought of that. I may try swapping out for another set of 8 ohm speakers and see. I know the seventy 80's are not that high end but they are all I had lying around, I do have an original speaker from my fender hot rod too , would mismatch the seventy 80 a little but I could try a swap and see if I get different results.

Will post back here with my findings, much appreciated man!! Thanks!
2014 Gibson Les Paul Futura
2014 Gibson Les Paul Studio
2013 Gibson Les Paul Special P90
2013 Gibson Les Paul Special HB
2013 Gibson SGJ
2010 Godin Session

Orange OR15 w/ PPC212OB
Peavey Classic 30
Fender Pro Junior

http://www.charmschooldropouts.com

randumb.tune
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Re: Micro terror cutting out at high volume/gain

Post by randumb.tune » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:26 pm

I got the same problem with a Peavey 8 Ohms Blue Marvel 12" speaker.

I gave my Amp back in the shop, they said they will replace it. Hmm now I will be Ampless for some weeks and results will be still the same. :(

I have a Peavey Bandit 112 amp in the jam-room, and I hate that Amp. So I took a guitar cable and attached alligator clips to the other end of the cable. And used this cable to connect the Peavey Blue Marvel speaker in the Peavey-Bandit112 combo.
It all worked fine with the old drummer, but then came the new psycho drummer, he plays drums so loud that I had to increase the volume. And then I discovered this problem. It played out well for 1st ~20 seconds. Then the cutt off started to happen, at 1st I thought this is due to faulty cable. But then When strum the chord and shake the guitar ( to disturb the cable) there is no cut off. But then I start to play some heavy doomy riffs with lots of palm muting then the cut-off appears. This doesn't happens if I am lets say lightly strumming chords or doing arpeggios etc.

Heffe213
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Re: Micro terror cutting out at high volume/gain

Post by Heffe213 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:12 pm

Ok, it has taken me a couple days but I have more to put out there on this topic. I decided not to take the 8 ohm "eminence" speaker out of my Hot rod deluxe just to test but I did have 2 8 ohm celestion tube 10 speakers that I wired parallel to test a different 4 ohm load on the micro. Same thing happened, got a little further on the volume knob at 75 percent gain but at about 4-5 on master volume it started spitting and cutting out just like with the seventy 80 speakers.

Then it gets interesting I had an old 4 ohm Kicker sub speaker from a set of stereo speakers. I wired it up to the micro and was able to max out the gain and the volume without cutting out. Now it didn't sound the best and the micro had issues pumping volume into a 10 inch sub but it still handled the load without failure...

Not sure what to think of this, I am considering just getting a really efficient 8 ohm 12 inch and getting a new empty cabinet (Orange of course!) and make my own as I don't care for the 8 inch that orange is making for the micro terror and the 12 inch 112 enclosure they make has a 16 ohm speaker in it. 16 ohms from the micro terror just sounds so thin AND quiet.

Question... will the solid state output of the micro terror at least sound good and not lifeless with an 8 ohm load as opposed to the 16 ohm load it is forcing me to use with my 212 cab? I am hoping so or I will be out a couple more hundred!!

What do you guys think?
2014 Gibson Les Paul Futura
2014 Gibson Les Paul Studio
2013 Gibson Les Paul Special P90
2013 Gibson Les Paul Special HB
2013 Gibson SGJ
2010 Godin Session

Orange OR15 w/ PPC212OB
Peavey Classic 30
Fender Pro Junior

http://www.charmschooldropouts.com

Heffe213
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Re: Micro terror cutting out at high volume/gain

Post by Heffe213 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:21 pm

Hey there randumb.tune,

If I am reading your post correctly I would definitely stop what you are doing with the alligator clips, not so much because of the clips themselves but you said you used a guitar cable, They are shielded and should never be used for hooking up a speaker. If it is a "speaker cable" then that should be fine, just hate to see you burn up your amp!

I had a blue marvel in my classic 30 a while back and never bonded with that speaker, then it died, the feeling must have been mutual! LOL, I believe it started cutting out a little beforehand too.. I got an et65 from warehouse speakers and never looked back! Awesome tone, it is a Celestion Heritage clone. Couldn't be happier.

Good luck man, and tell the drummer to lay off!! HAHA!
2014 Gibson Les Paul Futura
2014 Gibson Les Paul Studio
2013 Gibson Les Paul Special P90
2013 Gibson Les Paul Special HB
2013 Gibson SGJ
2010 Godin Session

Orange OR15 w/ PPC212OB
Peavey Classic 30
Fender Pro Junior

http://www.charmschooldropouts.com

a.hun
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Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 1:05 am
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Re: Micro terror cutting out at high volume/gain

Post by a.hun » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:29 pm

jontheid wrote:I've dug a little deeper into this and I think one element to this may be the Celestion Seventy 80 speakers you are using.

Remember, speaker impedance varies with frequency.
Here's a chart for speaker impedance vs frequency for an 8 ohm speaker (just to show how it varies).

Image

As you can see, it spends a fair amount of time presenting an impedance of less than 8 ohms to the amp.

Now, back to the Celestion Seventy 80.

Of all the speakers here : http://celestion.com/category/4/guitar/size/3/12%22/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; the Seventy 80 has the lowest DC impedance for an 8 ohm speaker, at 6.1 Ohms. Unfortunately there are no charts to see how this varies with frequency.

Maybe the Micro Terror just can't cope with this, which is why your amp struggles to drive it at '4 ohms'.
Maybe the other users that don't have so much of a problem at '4 ohms' are using other speakers that don't have such a low DC impedance.

Just a thought.
Jon
I don't see it somehow. The amp SHOULD work fine with a 4 ohm load. And if you run too low an impedance with a solid state amp the result isn't usually temporary cutting out, more like fried output transistors = total silence.

Sounds to me that there is maybe some intermittent fault which is showing up either with higher power or vibration levels.

Personally I'd punt it back for repair / replacement, especially if still under warranty. If not I'd still be contacting Orange as it does seem like a faulty unit to me. There is no way it should be cutting out like that!

Don't know what is happening, and it is probably impossible to diagnose without getting the amp on a tech's bench.

My thoughts anyway...


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

Heffe213
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Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:35 pm

Re: Micro terror cutting out at high volume/gain

Post by Heffe213 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:02 pm

One more thing of note, this happens upon the moment of contacting the strings, but the symptoms lessen after the notes are already ringing, somewhat of a "touch" thing. I can strike the strings with a pick then gradually raise the master volume and if gets fuller and doesn't cut out (this is when it sounds awesome), then with the volume up as I just moved it, I strike the strings again and it cuts out.

Led me to believe a tube was at fault due to the touch thing, however I swapped it out and get the same thing.. I am baffled, I am thinking Andy is right and a replacement may be in order...I just got it last week... Just hate going through the return/replacement ordeal (bought online) as I have heard others say this is happening to them too and to replace it may or may not help out...

I was about to do just that and return it for another then I tried the single 4 ohm kicker speaker as mentioned in my last post and it didn't cut out at all, just sounded like crap since it was going through a sub...
2014 Gibson Les Paul Futura
2014 Gibson Les Paul Studio
2013 Gibson Les Paul Special P90
2013 Gibson Les Paul Special HB
2013 Gibson SGJ
2010 Godin Session

Orange OR15 w/ PPC212OB
Peavey Classic 30
Fender Pro Junior

http://www.charmschooldropouts.com

randumb.tune
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:11 pm

Re: Micro terror cutting out at high volume/gain

Post by randumb.tune » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:39 pm

Heffe213 wrote:Hey there randumb.tune,

If I am reading your post correctly I would definitely stop what you are doing with the alligator clips, not so much because of the clips themselves but you said you used a guitar cable, They are shielded and should never be used for hooking up a speaker. If it is a "speaker cable" then that should be fine, just hate to see you burn up your amp!

I had a blue marvel in my classic 30 a while back and never bonded with that speaker, then it died, the feeling must have been mutual! LOL, I believe it started cutting out a little beforehand too.. I got an et65 from warehouse speakers and never looked back! Awesome tone, it is a Celestion Heritage clone. Couldn't be happier.

Good luck man, and tell the drummer to lay off!! HAHA!

Dammn !, :D . Well I am one of those newly evolving guitarists who are just discovering various things about gear and rigs. But thanks for tip.
BTW I just checked the cable and it is actually an un-shielded (two separate wires with no metal shielding over it )cable, and that explains why I didn't liked it while playing with guitar and decided to sacrifice it for Amp-speaker tryouts, but thanks for the tip, I was totally unaware of this distinction between speaker and instrument cables. I'll go for a proper speaker cable.
My New unit should arrive in the shop in few weeks, and I am currently playing on my Behringer practice amp, and god I miss my cute Orange Micro Terror so much.

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