Orange Bass Terror and cab ratings.

Orange Amps Technical Q&A's

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a.hun
Duke of Orange
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Re: Orange Bass Terror and cab ratings.

Post by a.hun » Thu May 17, 2012 3:54 pm

bassdrop wrote:
pikeybeatz wrote:Thanks for the replys, luckily ive only ever had to use the ashdown as a backup once when my bass terror fused and it did work (sounded horrible in comparison though).....slight different question now, what sized cab would the bass terror be able to power, e.g orange/ampeg 4x10 6x10 or 8x10 etc...the stereotypical cab sizes.
Any and all really as long the cab could handle the power. Otherwise you're referring to tone which is far more subjective, and convenience, where you may want a BIG cab for BIG tone or a small cab for a happy back.
That question is kind of back to front IMO. The real question is not 'which cabs can the amp power?', but 'which cabs can handle the amp's power?'...

Power handling apart the other really important factor of course is impedance. The amp is switchable for 4 or 8 ohms, pretty standard for bass amps / cabs. Don't go outwith that range, do set the impedance switch correctly, and remember that using multiple cabs will change (lower) the total impedance.

But otherwise, yeah, as I said somewhere in one of my rambles above there is no such thing as 'underpowering a cab', so plug it into whatever cabs you want to try. Speakers vary greatly in tone and sensitivity (loudness), but as long as the cabs power handling is sufficient and the impedance correctly matched you are fine to try any size or type. Just remember that if you start hearing the speakers 'farting out' or distorting it is always wise to back off.


Andy
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

3l3phantstomp
Tiny Terror
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:23 pm

Re: Orange Bass Terror and cab ratings.

Post by 3l3phantstomp » Fri May 18, 2012 3:50 pm

THIS has been a great great read gents. I love reading about orange period and have no objection to reading the guitar product love, but this is my meat and potatoes as an orange bassist!!!

I roll a TB500 thru a 212 and I love it. I've used it for acoustic+bass gigs (sort of a family jam-o-rama at bars once a month, for I play with my cousin and our dads tought us our instrumetns thus its double dutch goodness) and its lovely, i've used it in full rock band on stage situations, destroyed with it, and even filled in as a bassist for a friend's original metal band for three gigs. To be the dude at the 7 band metal show with a thunderbird and this rig, in an ocean of warwicks and combos, etc, it was a dream come true. Its amazing to set the rig down and have the sound guy look at you like THAT'S your bass rig, Jr?!?!? Then he gets his willy wicked!!! I get seriously nervous about people walking off with it, but I don't think that crowd knows what they may have been looking at...

Anyway, back to tech talk! This ain't sweet valley bass high...

I was on Talkbass.com and offering some thoughts about smaller rigs based on my experience, and someone rolled in and said something to the nature of Isobaric cabs only using/needing half the wattage of normal cabs, and that I was a numbnu7...I was completely confused. I think I obsorbed all of A.hun's passionate explainations here and learned a lot, but I can't underderstand the isobaric uses half, for I just assumed Isobaric meant sealed in tandem or something. Does that mean a 1200W amp can use the SP212 (rated at 600) and little fear should be involved? I'm not worried about my rig, but I want to understand and the folks at TalkB can be a bit...abrasively condescending at times...
tube huffer

doomed
New Member
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Location: south wales

Re: Orange Bass Terror and cab ratings.

Post by doomed » Fri May 18, 2012 7:45 pm

If you want to use a 1200w amp through your SP212, i'd advise you to be very careful with the volume knob, i can assure you the TB500 can kill the cab quite easily, i know from experience :? . I have used mine through a quite a few different cabs now and have only ever had a poor sound from one (a Laney rb115 which was only rated at 250w, if i'd known i had to run through it i'd have taken my sp212 and run both but as it was it was just, "you don't need to bring a cab we have one...") the Terror has always sounded good through everything else i've run it through.

a.hun
Duke of Orange
Posts: 9760
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 1:05 am
Location: Amsterdam, Hollandland.nl

Re: Orange Bass Terror and cab ratings.

Post by a.hun » Sat May 19, 2012 9:20 am

3l3phantstomp wrote:I was on Talkbass.com and offering some thoughts about smaller rigs based on my experience, and someone rolled in and said something to the nature of Isobaric cabs only using/needing half the wattage of normal cabs, and that I was a numbnu7...I was completely confused. I think I obsorbed all of A.hun's passionate explainations here and learned a lot, but I can't underderstand the isobaric uses half, for I just assumed Isobaric meant sealed in tandem or something. Does that mean a 1200W amp can use the SP212 (rated at 600) and little fear should be involved? I'm not worried about my rig, but I want to understand and the folks at TalkB can be a bit...abrasively condescending at times...
Well that isn't my understanding of it. In fact I think the opposite is true - a twin driver isobaric cab is 3dB LESS efficient than a single speaker cab with the same type of driver, so requires DOUBLE (not half!) the power to reach the same sound pressure levels. Of course the two drivers mean that the power handling is double that of a single speaker cab so that given a powerful enough amp it can go just as loud.

The advantage of an isobaric cab is that you can get the same frequency response from a cab with half the volume of a standard single speaker cab.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isobaric_loudspeaker wrote: The two drivers operating in tandem exhibit exactly the same behavior as one loudspeaker in twice the cabinet. The cabinet is defined as the space behind the rear driver. The volume of air between the speakers has no acoustic function so that the saved space is less than 50%. All other aspects are unchanged like resonant frequency and maximum SPL. The new driver will have the same resonance frequency, Qts, distortion, excursion etc. as one driver with the same applied signal. Because the impedance is also halved, this performance is achieved with twice the power. The new efficiency is thus 3 dB lower than with one loudspeaker. The reason for the unchanged resonance frequency is simple: the new combined loudspeaker has twice the moving mass compared to the single driver but also half the compliance because of the doubled suspension.

The result is that the coupled driver pair (iso-group) can now produce the same frequency response in half the box volume that a single driver of the same type would require. For example, if a speaker is optimized for performance in a 40 liter enclosure, one iso-group of the same speakers can achieve the same low frequency extension and overall response characteristics in a 20 liter enclosure. The aforementioned volumes exclude the isobaric chamber. If the iso group is placed in the original 40 liter, the loading will be incorrect (if the 40 liter was a correct loading of the loudspeaker).
So no, the SP212 is a 600W rated cab, and will need 600W to get to the same SPL as a standard (larger) 300W cab with the same driver type would. (And no it really doesn't mean you can safely drive that cab with a 1200W amp.)

The 'numbnuts' poster at Talkbass was either saying something else or is plain wrong!
(Could you link to that thread?)
I found you on THIS ONE where someone else said pretty much what I'm saying - these isobaric cabs put out less SPL* (for the same power input anyway), though the same maximum SPL given double the power.
*Saying 'half the SPL' is wrong though; everything else being equal -3dB is the equivalvent of half the power not half the volume which happens at 1/10 the power or -10dB. :?
http://www.animations.physics.unsw.edu.au/jw/dB.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd say that if someone was both wrong and insulting than it is probably worth reporting their post to the Talkbass moderators. Not everybody out there knows what they are really talking about, but they should at least be keeping things polite... :roll:


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

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