Rockerverb 100 MKII - How to brighten slightly?

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cmscss
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Rockerverb 100 MKII - How to brighten slightly?

Post by cmscss » Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:22 pm

Hi There,

I have a Rockerverb 100 which I love as the dirty gives me a great musical overdrive (I run the gain at about 10 'o clock) and the clean was the closest I found to my Twin compared with the other Oranges/Marshall's I tried.

But overall, I'm missing a touch of sparkle compared to the Twin and run both channels on full treble - I have a fairly heavily strung '62 Strat, and Orange 2x12 open back cabinet and tend to use the bridge pickup a lot. This all sounds rich and full bodied (which I like) but a touch duller than I'd prefer.

I also drive the master on both channels at about 3 'o clock to get more of a classic power amp overdrive and smoother clean and use a DR Z Airbrake to lower the volume. But even with the Airbrake, it's still LOUD.


I don't really understand how this all works so forgive my questions:

1. Lower the volume slightly
Can you remove a power tube to drop the overall volume slightly? I do like the headroom for larger stages but it still could be quieter.

2. Brighten the clean
I read that a Jan GE 5751 or Phillips 5751 in the V10 slot would brighten the clean - will this also brighten the dirty channel?

3. Brighten the dirty
If not, is there a way to brighten the dirty channel without ruining the smooth overdrive I'm getting?

4. Effects send advantages
Are there any advantages to running pedals through the effects send? I'm thinking of trying a valve compressor on the send - I'm hoping I can achieve a similar sound to running the clean master loud without having to turn it up so much as it's a lot louder than the dirty channel.


Overall, I love the rig so am not trying to do anything drastic - just wanting to deliver a touch more sparkle, even out the volume between the clean/dirty channels and lower the overall volume a bit. Hope this all makes sense.

Any help or pointers in the right direction would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Ben

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Re: Rockerverb 100 MKII - How to brighten slightly?

Post by ironlung40 » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:52 am

well darker is the orange sound when comparing to a twin for sure, but try an eq in the effects loop or even ran through the front. you can dial in the freq's you want and dial out some you don't....

also, get that master volume up as high as you can stand it, it will allow the amp to perform much better

You can't pull one tube to lower volume, but you can run the amp in half power mode....effectively reducing it's output to the approx. level of a 50 watter, so this should lower you headroom some...I think you'd just remove one of the valve failure fuses to do this. probably won't notice much of a diff. in perceivable loudness, though.
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Re: Rockerverb 100 MKII - How to brighten slightly?

Post by sizzlingbadger » Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:37 am

5751 tubes are not brighter they just have less gain. I find the Tung Sol reissue 12AX7 tubes nice and bright.

An EQ pedal in the loop lets you modify the overall sound and is the easiest route.

Time based effects like delay, chorus, flanger etc... usually sound better in the loop, especially when using the dirty channel on the amp. Compressors, OD, wah-wah etc... are better in front of the amp.

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Re: Rockerverb 100 MKII - How to brighten slightly?

Post by iblastoff » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:04 pm

sorry but you are just not going to get the brightness of a fender out of an orange. completely different voicings. oranges are known for being really dark sounding amps. but yah i think the best you can do is get an eq pedal if you really want to try and force your amp to sound like something its not.
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Re: Rockerverb 100 MKII - How to brighten slightly?

Post by Norrin Radd » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:01 pm

3rd post from the bottom. Works nicely.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30112" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Rockerverb 100 MKII - How to brighten slightly?

Post by sizzlingbadger » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:16 pm

Norrin Radd wrote:3rd post from the bottom. Works nicely.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30112" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That is for the MKI, the MKII is probably slightly different as it has a mid control but a similar mod could probably be worked out.

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Re: Rockerverb 100 MKII - How to brighten slightly?

Post by jason41224 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:16 am

depends how slightly. if you think the difference truly is small, it can probably be solved by getting brighter preamp tubes, throwing an EQ in the loop, or maybe even utilizing a treble booster of some kind. however, like all the others said, it won't transform your orange into a fender. make sure you're overall satisfied with the core tone of the amp, and then maybe adding a small bit of treble would be a good thing for what you play.

i would start with preamp tubes. they're a fairly cheap and easy (non-destructive) way to experiment with your sound.
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Re: Rockerverb 100 MKII - How to brighten slightly?

Post by jamison162 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:55 pm

There's lots of ways to brighten or "open" up the sound of your Orange.

1) If using closed back cabs, try an open back configuration.

2) If running V30's or similar, try a G12H30 or my fave...greenbacks.

3) Tubes: Try a JAN/Philips 12AT7 in the fx loop, they are $9.95 at tubedepot.com and will brighten the amp overall.

4) I like the TS 12ax7's if you want a brighter tone in the clean or dirty channel. There's one ax7 driver for the clean channel and 2 for the dirty. Also try a Mullard Reissue or Sovtek 12ax7LPS in the Phase Inverter position.

5) Remove the aluminum tube shields on all 7 of the preamp tubes, this will open up the amp overall by gerting rid of indirect capacitance. The metal shields affect electron movement in the tube (i.e. how they hit the plates). This is no bs.

6) If you want a brighter, tighter sound with more headroom, run the bias hotter - closer to 70%. If you want a warmer, more organic sound with more compression back it down to 60% or so.

7) Try different speaker cables or an old 12 amp vacuum cleaner cord if you have one. Ken Fischer of Trainwreck amps swore by them, I happen to agree. The high current burns off all the impurities and anomolies in the copper making it an excellent sounding cable for audio use.

This is all my opinion backed up by countless hours of research and testing by me, personally...not just a bunch of made up bs.
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Re: Rockerverb 100 MKII - How to brighten slightly?

Post by ironlung40 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:23 pm

jamison162 wrote:There's lots of ways to brighten or "open" up the sound of your Orange.

1) If using closed back cabs, try an open back configuration.

2) If running V30's or similar, try a G12H30 or my fave...greenbacks.

3) Tubes: Try a JAN/Philips 12AT7 in the fx loop, they are $9.95 at tubedepot.com and will brighten the amp overall.

4) I like the TS 12ax7's if you want a brighter tone in the clean or dirty channel. There's one ax7 driver for the clean channel and 2 for the dirty. Also try a Mullard Reissue or Sovtek 12ax7LPS in the Phase Inverter position.

5) Remove the aluminum tube shields on all 7 of the preamp tubes, this will open up the amp overall by gerting rid of indirect capacitance. The metal shields affect electron movement in the tube (i.e. how they hit the plates). This is no bs.

6) If you want a brighter, tighter sound with more headroom, run the bias hotter - closer to 70%. If you want a warmer, more organic sound with more compression back it down to 60% or so.

7) Try different speaker cables or an old 12 amp vacuum cleaner cord if you have one. Ken Fischer of Trainwreck amps swore by them, I happen to agree. The high current burns off all the impurities and anomolies in the copper making it an excellent sounding cable for audio use.

This is all my opinion backed up by countless hours of research and testing by me, personally...not just a bunch of made up bs.

would the g12h's really 'brighten' and open the tone? I run v30's and have always wanted tor try the g12's......(with my OR50 for reference).....anyway, i figured it would be just the opposite.
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Re: Rockerverb 100 MKII - How to brighten slightly?

Post by Daves » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:47 am

For me G12h30s were smoother and less harsh than the v30s, but not brighter. If anything they had more mids and less highs. They do sound good though, especially mixed in with V30s...best of both worlds. Also they start to sound better at lower volumes.
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Re: Rockerverb 100 MKII - How to brighten slightly?

Post by cmscss » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:33 pm

Wow, thanks heaps for all the replies and suggestions - much appreciated.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to turn my Orange into a Fender. As mentioned, I'm very happy with the Orange - it's just missing a touch of bright (when treble is on full), it's kind of subtle but hey, this is so close to being my ideal setup I thought I'd see what was possible.

Will look into all the options - I think an EQ could be a bit drastic but who knows.

Cheers

Ben

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Re: Rockerverb 100 MKII - How to brighten slightly?

Post by jamison162 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:11 pm

Ben, have you tried any "mods", how are they working out for you?

Evidence Audio Siren II speaker cable is must with Orange amps, IMO. Lower lows, higher highs, smoother gain whil still keeping the Orange character. A very balanced cable. I've been using it for several yrs now and have my cabs wired with it internally as well as my head-to-cab jumpers made with Siren II.
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Re: Rockerverb 100 MKII - How to brighten slightly?

Post by Bentfinger » Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:00 am

My RV100 with the ppc212cb cab sounds great with single coil guitars. Strats, Tele's and my ric 330. I use a clean boost for eq with my humbucker guitars to tame the darkness somewhat. I didn't have that problem with my old Marshall vintage av 4-12 cab. Also, the louder I play, the better it sounds. I did swap out my pi and reverb driver tubes with several nos 12ax7, u7, ax7a tubes. I have no clue what is in there now, but it is working for me. The eq suggestion above is a good way to start.. Boss, Mxr etc
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Re: Rockerverb 100 MKII - How to brighten slightly?

Post by ironlung40 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:31 am

jamison162 wrote:Ben, have you tried any "mods", how are they working out for you?

Evidence Audio Siren II speaker cable is must with Orange amps, IMO. Lower lows, higher highs, smoother gain whil still keeping the Orange character. A very balanced cable. I've been using it for several yrs now and have my cabs wired with it internally as well as my head-to-cab jumpers made with Siren II.
Never modded any of my amps except for a MV reversible mod on my OR120....no drilling, no damage to the amp, etc. I don't even have the OR50 anymore, and I picked up a 40th anniv. cab. I like it a lot better than the V30 loaded cab with my OR120.
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