Rockerverb MKII Dirty Channel too quiet?

[coltonwise]

I recently purchased a brand new Rockerverb 50 MKII to replace my Marshall DSL100 head. While I loved the tone, I noticed the dirty channel simply couldn't get as loud as I needed it. I had it turned up all the way to 10 and the gain was at about 7 and it was still too quiet. The clean channel's volume was at about 4 and was fine though, which I found weird. I sent the 50W back and ordered the 100W Rockerverb MK II instead. While the dirty channel is a little bit louder now with the 100W head, I still have to have the volume at about 8 for it to be as loud as I need for band practice. My Marshall DSL100 on the other hand is about the same volume as the Rockerverb 100W, with the volume at 4. I am running both heads through an Orange 4x12 and I haven't adjusted the Bias at all on the new Rockerverb, if that matters. Is there someone who can help me out? I don't understand why a 100W Rockerverb would have to have the volume set at 8 to match a 100W Marshall head with the volume at 4. Also, why does the dirty channel have to be turned up so much higher just to match the volume of the clean channel (which is at a much lower volume)? I would really appreciate any input! I LOVE the tone of my new Rockerverb, I just don't get the volume issue.

[Tamayo]

Well, since no one has answered your question I'll take a jab at it. It sounds like a tube issue. Preamp tube to be exact. Check out this link for more details. I own a RV50C as well.
http://www.geofex.com/ampdbug/lowpower.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[coltonwise]

I would think a possible tube issue as well, except that I just re-tubed the entire amp. Also, my clean channel volume is super loud with the volume at like 4. It's just the dirty channel that has to be turned up so loud. I guess I'll just have to live with it....sucks haha.

[Tamayo]

I would think a possible tube issue as well, except that I just re-tubed the entire amp. Also, my clean channel volume is super loud with the volume at like 4. It's just the dirty channel that has to be turned up so loud. I guess I'll just have to live with it....sucks haha.

That's happened to me as well. The phase inverter tube went you a few month after re-tubing the whole amp. And then not long after that the clean tubes had problems. Such is life with tube amps.

[coltonwise]

I actually did NOT replace the phase inverter. I replaced the four 12ax7 tubes, but I left the three 12at7 tubes in place...so one of those three 12at7's could be my problem. Would the Rockerverb be compatible with a 12ax7 for the phase inverter, instead of a 12at7? And...if this doesn't work, is there anything else I can do to get more volume out of this thing?

[a.hun]

If it isn't the PI valve (which I suspect it probably isn't as that would affect both channels equally) then no you don't have to just live with it. That isn't how the amp is supposed to be so get it fixed! Either under warranty or by a good tech if the warranty period is up.

Bu +1 to new valves always being suspect. If they are going to fail they tend to fail in transit or during early use. Older partly used valves are much more trustworthy as they have survived early use and have proved themselves not to be weeds.


Andy.

[Tamayo]

I think I may have caused some confusion. I was simply implying that I had experienced new tube failure. Not that the PI tube had anything to do with the volume drop. Sorry if I had miscommunicated that issue. You are in safe hands with these Orange pros 'coltonwise'.

[coltonwise]

Well...I practiced with the band tonight. The amp sounded ok. I had my dirty channel volume maxed out, just to match our other's guitarists Dual Rectifier head volume wise (he was turned up to 3 ). I just don't understand why this head doesn't put out the freaking volume. I am going to try putting a 12at7 in the phase inverter slot, to increase my headroom a little bit, and I'm going to replace the el34's with kt88's as I was told this would give me a slight volume increase as well. Overall though...I can't say this has been a good experience. I love the tone of this amp, but that doesn't matter if no one can hear it. I talked to a local repair guy, who happens to own the same head and he said that his was the same way...that the volume has to be maxed out to even come close to matching other 100W tube heads of the same class, even when the other amps volumes are way lower. I'm pretty sure at this point that the head isn't having problems...it's just the way it is I suppose. It's a shame though....at this point I would just rather toss the Rockerverb and keep my Marshall DSL100...

[a.hun]

Well...I practiced with the band tonight. The amp sounded ok. I had my dirty channel volume maxed out, just to match our other's guitarists Dual Rectifier head volume wise (he was turned up to 3 ). I just don't understand why this head doesn't put out the freaking volume. I am going to try putting a 12at7 in the phase inverter slot, to increase my headroom a little bit, and I'm going to replace the el34's with kt88's as I was told this would give me a slight volume increase as well. Overall though...I can't say this has been a good experience. I love the tone of this amp, but that doesn't matter if no one can hear it. I talked to a local repair guy, who happens to own the same head and he said that his was the same way...that the volume has to be maxed out to even come close to matching other 100W tube heads of the same class, even when the other amps volumes are way lower. I'm pretty sure at this point that the head isn't having problems...it's just the way it is I suppose. It's a shame though....at this point I would just rather toss the Rockerverb and keep my Marshall DSL100...

Re-reading everything here I suspect what you are experiencing is the fact that Oranges simply have a different tonality from Marshalls and Mesas. The 'M' amps both have a much more punch through (upper mid strong) tonality which sounds louder in a band mix than the fatter low mid heavy Orange sound. Put simply the 'M' amps need less watts to cut through.

Also Orange amps typically have a more gentle taper than many on the volume pots, meaning that you do have to turn them further to get really loud. Different from the 'above 4 it just gets more distorted, not louder' scenario. Worth being aware that you can't directly compare '4' on one amp with '4' on another.

Exactly what sort of speakers / cab are you putting your Orange through? That can have a huge effect on the resulting sounds. Not something with Celestion G12T-75 drivers in it by any chance? That would explain your volume issues completely...


Andy.

[coltonwise]

I'm using an orange 4x12 with V30's. I see what you are talking about with the volume thing though. Next practice, I may try having our other guitarist turn his amp volume all the way up, and seeing if they match still, volume wise. That could maybe verify that the amps just have different volume styles.