4x12 against 2x12

pellek · Post by **pellek** » Thu Apr 17, 2003 11:02 am

Is the PPC 2x12 cabinet good?
What is the difference with the 4x12cabinet?

Meole · Post by **Meole** » Thu Apr 17, 2003 12:56 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Is the PPC 2x12 cabinet good? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Yes.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>What is the difference with the 4x12cabinet? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
More weight , 2 more speakers, costs more.

Tibor · Post by **Tibor** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 6:17 pm

Iam totally satisfied with my new ppc212 it ist 12kg lighter than the 4x12 so no real PLUS...but it sounds great, o.k. the Speakers get pushed a little more (60Watt per speaker on my OD120)...and the sound is as full as my old ENGL4x12 cab...enough bass, damn loud Vintage 30s are more sensitive (Sensitivity(1W @ 1m)100db for Vintage30...only 95 for Silver60, if 3db make the music sound twice as loud you know hoe it sounds....GT75 have 97db so 3db away from V30...)...
it cost less...

Why is an ORANGE, orange? If it would be Green it would be an apple....

Jeppe Scaramangas · Post by **Jeppe Scaramangas** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:28 pm

Woah! Your playing n OD120 through a PPC212. IÃ‚Â´ve got an OR120 and I wanted to buy a 212 but got strongly adviced by the sales guy to NOT do so because the "OR120 would blow the speakers", he said.
Well I believed the guy and went hunting for other cabs cuz I didnÃ‚Â´t want a 412. There way too big for what i need.

So I found an open back "made in Finland" Creamsound 4x10 with 60W Vintage Celestions. It worked fine for half a year or so but IÃ‚Â´ve now found out that the Orange-head works alot better with a closed back cab. So IÃ‚Â´ve been seriosly thinking about selling it and spending money on a new Orange 412.

Still.. IF you are saying that there is no need to worry about blowing speakers IÃ‚Â´m getting the PPC 2x12 cab right away. I like the size and portability offcourse the "less output" aspect of it alot more.

What do you think.

Big Pics OR 120 from 1973
Listen to indie music from Finland at:
http://www.thescaramangas.com

Jeppe Scaramangas · Post by **Jeppe Scaramangas** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 9:07 pm

My point exactly.

Tibor ... are you sure you know what your doing. How is your PPC212 handling your OD120.

Big Pics OR 120 from 1973
Listen to indie music from Finland at:
http://www.thescaramangas.com

ecto coolest · Post by **ecto coolest** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 3:55 am

V30s handle 60 watts, not 30 watts. A PPC212 is rated for 120 watts and the 4x12 is rated at 240 watts. i think they are called V30s because 12" is 30 cm, not because they handle 30 watts (which they don't, they handle 60 watts)

anyone back me up on this?

spoonman · Post by **spoonman** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 4:51 am

You're right about the Vintage 30s, they're rated
at 60 watts. I tried a pair in a custom cabinet
and didn't like the sound with my OR 120 head (too
middley). I now run the head through four 10"
Celestions rated at 35 watts each and love the
sound. I've even run it (at reasonable volume)
through an early 70's Marshall cab with four
bulldog era 10" speakers meant to handle only
about 15 watts each! Very nice, transparent
tone, but I wouldn't crank the amp too much. I
used to own an Orange cab with four 75 watters
but couldn't afford the chiropractor bills anymore!

Jeppe Scaramangas · Post by **Jeppe Scaramangas** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 7:46 am

Woah. This is all news to me. The 30 handles 60W. Very missguiding. But does this mean that my OR120 is going to work like a charm with the PPC212?

Ok. IÃ‚Â´ve also heard that you need a cab that can handle way more than your cabs maximal output in order to insure that you donÃ‚Â´t blow it up.
So that would mean that the OR120 will push the PPC212 to its limits, right?Will I be able to sleep safely at night if I put my OR120 through the PPC212 with the two Celestion 30Ã‚Â´s that supposedly gives out a full 60+60=120W.

The reason why I want to get a closed-back Orange cab is because IÃ‚Â´ve found out that my Orange has alot more bass and punch with a 1960 Marshall 4x12 Cab and IÃ‚Â´m pretty sure that the Orange Cabs are better, But ...have any of you guys had a chance to AB-check the difference between the two. Does the PPC212 respond as well as the 412. IÃ‚Â´m hoping that IÃ‚Â´d get a great amount punch and bass but at lesser volumes and with a smaller and more portable cab.

Help me out. Please

Big Pics OR 120 from 1973
Listen to indie music from Finland at:
http://www.thescaramangas.com

Jeppe Scaramangas · Post by **Jeppe Scaramangas** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 7:52 am

Oh, and IÃ‚Â´ve also read somewhere that the OR120s do not put out 120 Watts but actually 100watts. Is this true?
Would the headroom of 20 W in the PPC212 be enough to run the OR120 safely?

Big Pics OR 120 from 1973
Listen to indie music from Finland at:
http://www.thescaramangas.com

Meole · Post by **Meole** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 1:27 pm

It is not critical to match the power handling of a speaker system precisely with the power output of the amplifier. But as a general rule, the power rating of the speaker(s) should be at least equal to that of the amplifier.

ecto coolest · Post by **ecto coolest** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 6:16 pm

i dont think you would have anything to worry about if you got the ppc212 to use with your or120. you keep saying that using a 2x12 will give you "lesser volumes" as opposed to a 4x12... that isn't true. you will just be pushing less air, so it won't feel as "big" sounding as a 4x12, but it will be just as loud...if that makes sense. i would recommend trying out a 2x12 and then trying a 4x12 and see what i mean.

Jeppe Scaramangas · Post by **Jeppe Scaramangas** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 11:19 pm

Thanks alot for answering my question but what...
are you guys are telling me that the PPC212 is just as loud as the 412? Thats perfect but just with lesser BOOOM.

This definetely means that IÃ‚Â´m seriously considering the 212. First of all IÃ‚Â´ve always thought that 4x12s are way too boomy and sound too transparent. Too big,PA-like. If the 212 is just as loud it will probably just plain sound better. To my ears. IÃ‚Â´m more comfortable pushing a smaller cab harder and getting the juices out of it instead of just having tons of headroom. I like the sound of a cranked amp,a cranked cab, cranked speakers, cranked everything.
As I said, Ive been using a 4x10 Open Back but it just wont sound right. Although the cab is great with other amps, the Orange sounds better with any closed back cab IÃ‚Â´ve tried.

Hey but,correct me if Im wrong... so the 212 will be working harder, pushing the speakers twice as hard as the 412 and STILL BE PERFECTLY SAFE to use with my 1973 Big Pics OR120. Are you also telling me that the dealer in the store that sell Oranges here doesnÃ‚Â´t know jacks-hit of what he is talking about. He strictly told me that IÃ‚Â´d blow the PPC212 vintage 30 speakers if I run the OR120 with it.All I want to know is that I wont blow the speakers. That is way too expensive for me.

So he is totally wrong? ...Right?
I kinda have this thing for the 212.IÃ‚Â´ve tried it with an AD30 in the store and it sounded Great. And besides... it is easier to road and itÃ‚Â´s cheaper. Two BIG plusses.

Big Pics OR 120 from 1973
Listen to indie music from Finland at:
http://www.thescaramangas.com

ecto coolest · Post by **ecto coolest** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 3:45 am

the general rule is to buy a cab that is rated for the same watts as your amp produces, or more. does this mean i'll buy you new speakers if your or120 blows them up? hell no. all i know is that the or120 is rated at 120 watts and the 212 is rated at 120 watts. according to the general rule you should be ok.

in the 70s, orange cabs came with either 25 watt greenbacks or 30 watt celestions. so if you bought an or120 in 1972, and bought an orange 4x12 with greenbacks...then you would be hooking up a 120 watt amp to a cab rated at 100 watts. did this stop people from using the two together? i doubt it. perhaps everyone back then used full stacks to make up for it...they may have, im not old enough to know.

anyway, if the salesman told you that the v30s were rated for 30 watts each, he already lost his credibility, so who cares what he says, right?

Jeppe Scaramangas · Post by **Jeppe Scaramangas** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 8:35 am

You are absolutely right, to hell with him. I only wish there was another place to get Oranges here. But there is only. We are at the mercy of incompetent salespersonell.

Big Pics OR 120 from 1973
Listen to indie music from Finland at:
http://www.thescaramangas.com

Iron_Man · Post by **Iron_Man** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 3:39 pm

Hi, I'm not a huge Expert, but if the speakers are designed to handle 120 watts of power, and you have a 120 watt head you should be fine.

As far as I understand, it's not throwing out 120 watts unless its on full volume? Please correct if wrong. But unless you've got you're orange on maximum vitamin C you shouldnt blow your speakers. <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

And as they're rated for 120 you should be ok. I'd just be very careful and not crank to 10. If you felt like it you could get some Celestion 75's or something, I know they produce a 75 watt speaker, that'd give you sufficient space but allow you to still push them pretty hard. It'd change tone though, not a good thing.

I'd just treat it like a lady and never push too hard, even though you know she can take it <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast...

4x12 against 2x12

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