Tiny terror really hot? Sounding worse after a while

Orange Amps Technical Q&A's

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Mrjones2004x
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Tiny terror really hot? Sounding worse after a while

Post by Mrjones2004x » Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:53 pm

How hot should a tiny terror get? After playing mine with volume on about 1 oclock and gain set about 2 oclock on 7 watt mode for half hour the whole casing is really quite hot. Lke touching the oven door hot. you can hold your hand on it but it is still hot.

Is this normal??

Also my amp starts to sound worse the longer i play it.? It sounds good for about 15 mins then i leave it idle for a bit maybe ten mins then go back and it sounds really bad compared to before. Any ideas??

Thanks
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Post by haventbeenalion » Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:18 pm

How long have you had the amp? The sound quality problem could be a failing/bad tube.
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Andy H.
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Post by Andy H. » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:25 pm

I'd take a good look at the (larger) power valves when the amp is first on and again when fully warmed up. Normally valve amps do get pretty hot - nature of the beasts really. But there are limits.

You particularly want to look out for 'red plating'...
http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.php?t=15651
Because ignoring it can lead to...
http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.php?t=10331

Also the sound should be getting BETTER as the amp gets up to full working temperature. That is normal for every valve amp I've owned or regularly used. Going the other way means something definitely isn't right.


Andy.
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Mrjones2004x
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Post by Mrjones2004x » Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:17 am

Cheers guys for the help. Will check the colour tonight but i dont remember it being any different.

One thing i have found tho as i took the cover off after using for half an hour the transformers are the biggest reason for heat, these are very hot compare to everything else.

I say it gets worse as i think it starts to sound harsh. Now im changing my speaker in the next few days anyway cos the stock one in my cab is crap so i'll see if it makes a difference.

The amp is about 2 weeks old thats why i asked wether or not they normally get this hot?

Is getting the biasing checked easy enough?
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Andy H.
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Post by Andy H. » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:16 am

Bias shouldn't really need checked with that amp. It is cathode biased, meaning a broad enough degree of self adjustment for most valves to be run in range.

You sure you are running the right impedance speaker with the amp?


Andy.
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Mrjones2004x
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Post by Mrjones2004x » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:01 pm

Hi, I'm playing through my laney lv200 combo speaker at the minute which is a celestion super 65. I wasn't sure on ohms s I checked the ohms between the positive and negative and it read 7.9 ohms so I'm using the 8 ohm jack.
I'm getting my g12t75 speaker today and will be running through that till I buy a cab. Its a load hotter than my epi amp so was woried a bit.
Cheers
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Andy H.
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Post by Andy H. » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:03 am

Mrjones2004x wrote:Hi, I'm playing through my laney lv200 combo speaker at the minute which is a celestion super 65. I wasn't sure on ohms s I checked the ohms between the positive and negative and it read 7.9 ohms so I'm using the 8 ohm jack.
I'm getting my g12t75 speaker today and will be running through that till I buy a cab. Its a load hotter than my epi amp so was woried a bit.
Cheers
Hope you like it. Personally I don't find they work best with Orange amps though. Reason being I find they don't really put out the typical low / low-mids grunt of Oranges well enough. There are a few who do like them with Orange amps though and there are no rules. If it works for you then thats AOK!

Doesn't get us any further forward on your ? amp problem though...


Andy.
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You get a wonderful view from the point of no return.

Mrjones2004x
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Post by Mrjones2004x » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:09 am

Well the speaker was the right rating so dont know?

Ive swapped to using the 8ohm celestion so see how that go's. valves look ok and not glowing bad so ????

Like i say the transformers get real hot and the whole case warms up to. Will try again soon.
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Andy H.
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Post by Andy H. » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:43 am

Mrjones2004x wrote:Well the speaker was the right rating so dont know?

Ive swapped to using the 8ohm celestion so see how that go's. valves look ok and not glowing bad so ????

Like i say the transformers get real hot and the whole case warms up to. Will try again soon.
Listen, valve amps do get hot. Your amp may just be normal, or may not. Kind of hard to tell from here.

Reason they get so hot though is that they are much less efficient than solid state amps at converting electrical power from the mains into electrical power to the speakers. A typical 100w rated solid state amp may be drawing say 150w from the wall. (So say around 60 - 70% efficient, ball park figure.)
A 100w rated valve amp is probably going to draw nearer 300W from the wall as they are usually only about 30% efficient, ball park.
The power loss between input and output basically goes up as heat, and all valve amps put out way more heat energy than sound energy...

Let us know how it is behaving itself now though. :)


Andy.
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You get a wonderful view from the point of no return.

Mrjones2004x
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Post by Mrjones2004x » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:20 pm

Of to my mates to jam tonight so will be on for 3 hours prob with only little breaks prob at ahlf volume so i'll report back soon
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BrianPhase90
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Post by BrianPhase90 » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:25 am

The transformer getting hot isn't normal... It should only be slightly warm to the touch... It's like it's pushing too much load.

Mrjones2004x
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Post by Mrjones2004x » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:36 am

Hi,

Right, went jamming last night and played through the new celestion G12T-75 speaker 8 ohms rated plugged nto the 8ohms output on the amp. Played for about 3 hours and had about 15 mns break somewhere and it was running half power on 15 watt mode half power the whole time.

The case got mildly warm to touch nothing like it was getting, the warmest part was the right hand back corner looking from on top.

I did measure and it did say the old speaker was 8 ohms so why would this of made the amp run so hot and this speaker doesnt??

Cheers.

Didnt notice any change in sound either after a while, the only time i noticed a change was that i turned it off for about ten mins then was different when i turned it back on for a bit then went back to normal which is standard fr tube amp tho i guess as they need to warm up again properly.
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Andy H.
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Post by Andy H. » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:08 am

Well odd. But if it is only playing up with that particular speaker...


Andy.
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Mrjones2004x
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Post by Mrjones2004x » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:46 am

Ok this must be the prob................ It only does it at my house? Maybe wall voltage to high? We have a problem in our flat that we go through a really high amount of lightbulbs too and someone once told me this would cause a problem.

MMMMMM, only 244Volts???
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tony_clifton
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Post by tony_clifton » Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:51 pm

Mrjones2004x wrote:Ok this must be the prob................ It only does it at my house? Maybe wall voltage to high? We have a problem in our flat that we go through a really high amount of lightbulbs too and someone once told me this would cause a problem.

MMMMMM, only 244Volts???
That's 6% too high!

I can see why your trannies get hot... I mean, most devices have a switch to switch between 220 and 230v, which is a difference of only 4,5%!

I'd make some calls as soon as possible, I mean, what if one of your other electic devices catch fire in the middle of the night or something?

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