rockerverb series

[Mono]

hey all, sorry to start a new thread for this, but it didn't seem appropriate for general discussion.
i got a 3rd hand rockerverb 50 combo a few days ago, and had a brief look around inside it. it looked like the electronics were quite old and rudimentary.
my question is:

have the electronics changed in the production models since they began in 2004, or has orange always employed classic electronics rather than newfangled transistors and such?

also, my clean channel, even at full volume, doesn't seem that loud! but the dirty channel has loads of feedback.... any ideas?

thanks
(recent orange convert)

[Simon Wicks]

Always valves for the rocker series! They sound a lot better than transistors for the application we use - namely rock music Becareful though...that "rudimentary" circuit can fatally shock you!

[PopnFresh]

You bought a valve amp, those nice glowing things are tonal nirvana!

[Mono]

haha, yeah i know it is all valve, that's why i bought it!
what i meant was... what changes have the rockerverb series gone through over these last 5 years?
I've read about some cable shielding to lower noise, but other than that...?
thanks!
Mono

[Orphin]

Mono, I'm not sure I understand what you are asking??
How do you mean"old"?

Some things in the circuit might have changed since the launch of the RV series, but we're talking some different values on a resistor here and there.

It's normal for the dirty channel to be louder than the clean channel. It's because it has more gain stages and therefor can push the signal harder before it amplifies by the power amp.
Although if you crank both volumes and set the gain to match the amount of distortion of the clean channel, i.e. quite low, both channels should be approximately the same volume.

[misterMagoo]

Hi, I was looking into buying a 2004 RV50 and I am also wondering what changes have occured. Anything major? Transformers or such? And is the sound much different?

I tried out a new RV50 Head and combo at the music shop the other day and I was blown away, but needless to say, I can't handle the new price. So what can I expect?

[a.hun]

Hi Mono and misterMagoo.

Ade Emsley (who designed the amp) posted on some minor circuit changes here:
http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.php?t=7259" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The transformers Orange use have also been upgraded:
The earliest RV's used Dagnell and Douglas trannies.
Then in the US they moved to using (apparently very nice) Mercury Magnetics ones for a while. (Not sure of exact dates or serial numbers, but they would be easy to spot as they have bright orange covers.)
At that time UK production moved to using upgraded Demeters, specially designed to sound as close as possible to the MM ones.
Now they all use those Demeters AFAIK. (Not 100% sure on that!)

Only other changes I'm aware of right now were better reverb cables and better quality stock valves.

Unless I've missed something in the last wee while thats probably about it for RV. changes.


Andy.

[a.hun]

i got a 3rd hand rockerverb 50 combo a few days ago, and had a brief look around inside it. it looked like the electronics were quite old and rudimentary.

...also, my clean channel, even at full volume, doesn't seem that loud! but the dirty channel has loads of feedback.... any ideas?

thanks
(recent orange convert)

Mono, all valve amps are based on pretty old technology by todays standards. Works though!

About your clean channel volume, it may or may not be normal. I suspect it probably is, but it would be worth checking the preamp valves and seeing if any swaps made a significant difference.

Chances are though that what you are hearing is the simple fact that distorted sounds from a given amp power (here around 50 Watts) will always sound louder than clean sounds. That has to do with two main factors:
A/ the way the ear responds differently to distorted and clean sounds, simply hearing distorted ones as louder.
B/ the fact that a distorted ('clipped') signal will actually have a genuinely higher RMS average power due to the different shape of the clipped waveform.

The maximum peak power the amp can put out is similar for clean and dirty signals. If you like, that is like a measure of how 'high' the waveforms will be. The higher the wave is the more power is being put out.

But the actual sustained average (RMS) power won't be the same, due to the different shapes of clean and dirty waveforms.

Clean signals not only sound smoother but actually are - they are more rounded. Clipped waveforms are just that - the tops and bottoms are clipped off / flattened out. Which means that with a dirty signal the amp is actually spending more time putting out more power. The signal waveform spends more time close to its maximum height = maximum power. Meaning a higher average power output over time. And the higher the gain (and your 4 stage dirty channel = pretty high gain) the more the waveform is squashed / compressed / flattened, meaning the greater the difference will be compared to a smooth clean waveform.

Maybe this short article on 'clipping' will help explain that better:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

So it may well be that there is nothing wrong with the clean channel at all.


Andy.

[misterMagoo]

I was informed by Will Loftin that the reverb tank was also changed. He didn't say when though, but did mention that it was for reliability reasons.

[a.hun]

I was informed by Will Loftin that the reverb tank was also changed. He didn't say when though, but did mention that it was for reliability reasons.

Didn't know that. Cool info - thanks!

I dare say there will always be small changes to the production amps being made. At least with Orange - who actually do seem to care about putting out a good (and great sounding) product - thats generally going to be a positive thing. Not least because they will often be responding to user feedback, maybe from here, or else from dealers / warranty repairs info. So if say, (as has very occasionally happened), a bad batch of components find their way into some amps, they'll do something about it ASAP. Realistically that sort of thing is probably inevitable now and then due to changing component availability.

The main thing is that they also try to deliberately improve things where possible, and upgrading stock valves and transformers is pretty positive. Does mean that the earliest production versions of any model will be a little different from later production runs. But that happens with virtually any product, anything that lasts a few years in production anyway. Doesn't suddenly make earlier ones 'bad' amps or any such.


Andy.