Vintage Orange amps

Gladmarr · Post by **Gladmarr** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:28 am

Well, that's entirely possible. The OTR is an outgrowth of the original Matamp-designed circuits. I thought I read somewhere on this forum that the OTR was the last design comissioned by Orange from Matamp. It seems logical Mr. Lewis would have left his mark.

Damn-Deal-Done · Post by **Damn-Deal-Done** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:17 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Orphin
 Take a look at the OTR PCB board.
It says: Voice of the world, London England, and after that there is a symbol. If you would look closely on that symbol it says "JL", for Jeff Lewis!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's great. I'm wondering if it was built in the Matamp factory or just designed there. Actually, when I bought it direct from Orange I was given Jeff's number in case of any problems with it, this was written on the back of the OTR product catalogue. So I'm guessing it was built in the Matamp factory.

So basically Matamp built the original Orange amps until Orange started building their own, but then after a short break in the 80's. Production then went back to Matamp for one last round in the 90's before Orange got on their feet again.

So my thought is, who did Noel Gallagher go meet when he was discussing the design changes to the basic Overdrive model which became the OTR?

Some ideas about the name OTR. Around that time Matamp was building an amp called the Road Kind I believe, has a similar layout to the OTR. OTR has been rumoured to stand for 'On The Road'. In the manual it says 'Oscilatory transition Return'. But maybe it could also stand for 'Oranges Transitional Return' to the amp business, since it was the last OLD style amp they built before the AD series was released and all the old greats were discontinued for maybe the last time. Just a theory.

I am actually chasing after a vintage amp, either an Orange OR120 or a Matamp GT120 to replace the one I sold years and years ago for Ã‚Â£250.

I think a GT Retro might be the way to go, none master volume.

fiveightandten · Post by **fiveightandten** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:37 pm

The OTR-120/80 is an OR-120/80 with a handful of minor circuit changes. This amp was the stepping stone that brought the company back to life in the late 90's. I'm almost positive that Ade is responsible for that circuit. It was the amp that bridged the gap between the vintage models, and modern Oranges.

The 90's reissue OR-series amps were brought to life by the hands of people at Matamp, Trace Elliot, and Gibson USA. Matamp did the actual wiring and assembly, but the PCB's came from Trace Elliot (most likely already loaded and ready to install). Gibson was the company that owned the Orange name and license to produce the amps at that time. They distributed the amps and imported them to the states as well. I've heard accounts that Matamp only assembled a limited amount of 90's reissues, and full production was shifted to Trace Elliot for some reason. But i've never seen anything to confirm this.

I'm pretty sure (though not positive, i'd have to do some fact checking) that the OTR was produced in the same way, but instead of Gibson being behind it, Orange owned the name again and was the company behind the operation. Also, although I have no data to back it up, i'm pretty convinced that the OTR was produced and made with a ridiculous name simply because Orange didn't have the legal rights to produce the OR-120/80 circuit and use the OR-120/80 name anymore. They probably changed it enough to stay out of legal trouble and made the amp long enough to get the company back on its feet before starting the AD line and bringing the company into what it is now. Again, i'm just speculating. But it would seem to make sense, knowing that another company was paying to produce the amps while Orange was no longer in the picture. Gibson obviously bought the rights to produce the circuit and use the name. Orange never made those amps again, and to this day i'm still hard pressed to find any mention of the names of those amps on their website or in any literature they put out.

-Nick

Gladmarr · Post by **Gladmarr** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:22 am

Okay, well the schematic on the Orange Field Guide says Ade on it, but how could you really attribute that design to anyone else but Mat Mathias?!? There are a few capacitors that are changed either to get around some sort of intellectual property infringement or to actually tweak the circuit, but it's an OD120 for all intents and purposes. That would be like attibuting each and every fender champ clone to the guy who built it. It's still Leo Fender's amp, and it's still lifted from the RCA Receiving Tube manual....

As for the build, it's Matamp all the way. There's no comparison between the way the two animals (AD series and OTR series) are put together, but the comparisons between the OTR and OR build are undeniable....

Simon Wicks · Post by **Simon Wicks** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:11 pm

I believe Ade was responsible for the OTR design. I was discussing Orange amps with Dave Green at Matamp and he indicated that Ade did well out of that design. I think he was getting at the fact Ade did little to the overall design other than minor adjustments.

Orphin · Post by **Orphin** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:25 pm

Nick's pretty much spot on there.

Not only the reissue amps were brought to life with help from Matamp and Gibson, but the entire company.
Cliff Cooper was up to his ears in depts at the end of OMI and finally went bust. With the help form Gibson and Matamp he started a new company called Orange Music Electronic Company Ltd. (OMEC).
I think Trace Elliot came after Matamp and Gibson split the scene, but I'm not sure..

Gladmarr · Post by **Gladmarr** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:05 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Simon Wicks
 I believe Ade was responsible for the OTR design. I was discussing Orange amps with Dave Green at Matamp and he indicated that Ade did well out of that design. I think he was getting at the fact Ade did little to the overall design other than minor adjustments.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It's basically a Pix Only ('72 schematic) amp with 1 cap changed in the preamp, four resistors changed (slightly) in the phase inverter and the bias grid resistors changed (again, slightly) in the power amp. I don't call that design, that's mere modification.... I do agree with Dave Green's assessment though, he did well for himself if that was his foot-in-the-door for the job of amp designer for Orange....

markdemanbey · Post by **markdemanbey** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:12 pm

My first and only Orange is my GRO100, which puts me in the "vintage" camp.

However, I've been through a world of torment with this amp! I've only recently started loving it.

When I got it, 15+ years ago, Oasis hadn't quite made it on the Brit scene, and the popular love of Orange amps hadn't quite taken hold; I bought it from my brother in law with a Marshall 4x12 for about Ã‚Â£300. It was OK, very loud, but for me it was just an amp, nothing special. I think that I'd convinced myself that it must sound great, because it was an Orange, therefore it MUST sound great.

I tried to sell it a number of times recently, second hand prices are mad at the moment, and it seemed stupid to me to have such a valuable piece of kit sitting at home not being used. I wanted something smaller and more manageable, a decent Marshall combo or maybe a Fender Deville or something. But everytime I put it up on EvilBay, I ended up ending the auction - I just could never bring myself to commit to selling it.

Then I started to go through a bit of a voyage of discovery with my guitar - my main guitar is an old Charvel, nice enough, but again, nothing special. So I cut myself a new scratchplate and bought a couple of Bare Knuckle Nailbomb pickups... Suddenly my tone started to really take off... I ditched the DigiTech multiFX box that I'd been using for years in favour of high end (and not-so-high-end) stomp boxes, and stared to look seriously at the amplification that I was using.

Luckily, the Orange blew up! This meant that I had to take it somewhere to get it fixed (rather than some muppet in Denmark Street!). So, the amp was repaired, and it now sounds superb, I would never consider selling it.

I'd still like to augment it with a more versatile and manageable amp, and I certainly wouldn't dismiss modern Orange amps - I've heard many of them, and I think that they sound great! But I'd never let the GRO100 go now.

Mark.

Aslan · Post by **Aslan** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:35 pm

Thanks for the input on the Vintage Orange amps. One question I have is a local amp tech that's been fixing amps since 1978 told me that to be wary of the Vintage Orange amps because the wires (inside the amp) were to "thin" or "small" for the amp? Have any of you ever heard this?

Simon Wicks · Post by **Simon Wicks** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:45 pm

Yeah, the wires inside my orange look like ribbon cable...literally that small. No problems yet after 35 years though

Gladmarr · Post by **Gladmarr** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:48 am

The real issue is the current carrying capacity of the wires. If they can handle the current without overheating to the point where they melt their own insulation, you're just fine. To me the real problem with the old Oranges is lead dress. They weren't all that careful with the layout of the wiring - compare it to a Hiwatt and you know immediately what I mean. Although, even some of my slopiest looking Oranges are still dead quiet at idle, so I guess it's still a pretty well designed circuit. Most amps would have to have really clean wiring to be that quiet.

jp0971 · Post by **jp0971** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:08 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Aslan
 Thanks for the input on the Vintage Orange amps. One question I have is a local amp tech that's been fixing amps since 1978 told me that to be wary of the Vintage Orange amps because the wires (inside the amp) were to "thin" or "small" for the amp? Have any of you ever heard this?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I was working on my overdrive 120 yesterday, and noticed that actually. Never had a problem myself though. I think Simon described them pretty well

Simon Wicks · Post by **Simon Wicks** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:23 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gladmarr
 The real issue is the current carrying capacity of the wires. If they can handle the current without overheating to the point where they melt their own insulation, you're just fine. To me the real problem with the old Oranges is lead dress. They weren't all that careful with the layout of the wiring - compare it to a Hiwatt and you know immediately what I mean. Although, even some of my slopiest looking Oranges are still dead quiet at idle, so I guess it's still a pretty well designed circuit. Most amps would have to have really clean wiring to be that quiet.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hiwatts are a work of art though! I am cloning a DR103 at the moment and getting close to that kind of lead dress is going to to be tough!

fiveightandten · Post by **fiveightandten** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:34 am

70's Orange lead dress does suck, in general. The 90's amps are way cleaner. But...the 70's units had better iron and better boards.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Simon Wicks
 
Hiwatts are a work of art though! I am cloning a DR103 at the moment and getting close to that kind of lead dress is going to to be tough!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Just take your time with it and don't accept anything less than perfection. I made a DR504 clone, and I have layouts if you need them.

-Nick

chrismathewsjr · Post by **chrismathewsjr** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:40 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fiveightandten
 70's Orange lead dress does suck, in general. The 90's amps are way cleaner. But...the 70's units had better iron and better boards.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Simon Wicks
 
Hiwatts are a work of art though! I am cloning a DR103 at the moment and getting close to that kind of lead dress is going to to be tough!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Just take your time with it and don't accept anything less than perfection. I made a DR504 clone, and I have layouts if you need them.

-Nick
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'd take a layout if you got some!

Vintage Orange amps

Who is online