Orange 4x12 Phase

heliosdavid · Post by **heliosdavid** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:50 pm

I have a relatively new Orange 4x12 cabinet that I was recently using in the studio. In typical studio fashion, the cabinet had 2 mics on it, and the engineer mentioned to me that one of my speakers appeared to be out of phase.

About a week ago, I had a friend of mine who owns a sound company use a device to check the phase of the cabinet, and sure enough, the bottom left speaker was out of phase with all of the others.

Does anyone know if this is done intentionally by Orange? I ask because I've heard that if you have speaker out of phase, it can cancel some of your volume and frequencies. I believe fixing the cabinet would simply require swapping the positive and negative wires on the "problem" speaker, but I wanted to see if anyone knew if Orange did this on purpose first.

Thanks!

David

Simon Wicks · Post by **Simon Wicks** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:01 pm

By out of phase i presume that while three are pushing out, one is pulling back in?

If thats so, just unsolder the two wires on the speaker thats out of phase and swap them. Probably an error that occured during wiring. Dead easy to fix.

Post by **bclaire** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:05 pm

Did you test the speaker cab to see if it's out of phase- it's easy. Plug in a speaker cable and touch a 9 volt battery to the end of the cable- all four speakers should move the same way- either all in or all out. If one of them doesn't, it's wired out of phase....

heliosdavid · Post by **heliosdavid** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:26 pm

I haven't tried the battery trick... I used a device named "Cricket" made by Galaxy Audio which I believe does the same thing. I guess I'm still trying to determine if it's supposed to be that way.

heliosdavid · Post by **heliosdavid** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:30 pm

Has anyone opened a 4x12 cabinet to perform repairs? I'm wondering if there's a lot of sensitive baffling and such, or if it's as easy as removing the screws on the back side and taking off the back panel.

Thanks!

David

BrianGT · Post by **BrianGT** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:06 pm

It shouldn't be out of phase..........there is no reason for Orange to want to do that. It is probably just an accident of wiring it up at the factory. Getting to it and swapping the wires is very easy...if you have to unsolder the tags place something underneath them to save solder dropping into and through the cone!
Brian

Andy H. · Post by **Andy H.** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:48 pm

Hi David.

That not be the first badly wired cab thats come up recently. (I think your sound engineer mate will have been right about a speaker being out of phase.)
http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.php?t=11593

Hope there aren't too many out there!

As the other was made a couple of years back I kind of let it go as a one off. If yours is newish though I'd say that Orange need to know about it. (And would want to.) I'm getting the impression (may be wrong, but I'm guessing not) that the occasional problem cabs - badly wired or mis-labelled - seem to have been the recent US produced ones. I think that starting up production in a new site is never going to be totally smooth or problem free, but the quality control still needs to be nice and tight IMO.

Shall I e-mail Orange with links to these threads? Or you may want to contact them yourself David?

Out of phase speakers are NOT intentional, and will indeed weaken the sound as you first suggested - badly! Easy to fix though, as Simon and Brian are saying.

PS: Hi again people!
Sorry, been a bit AWOL of late.

Job hunting mainly right now. Sorry, thats ongoing so I'll mainly still just be lurking as I have plenty on. Still around though folks.

PP: Congrats to Clay for belting past me in the post count in the meantime. No worries, rate you're going you'll never see me close again...

Member Information:

irish_admiral Orange Expert! 9906
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Andy.

heliosdavid · Post by **heliosdavid** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:04 pm

Many thanks to AndyH and everyone else for your responses... they have been very helpful and informative. I have contacted OrangeUSA and mentioned the problem to them, and they suggested correcting the wiring as you mentioned. I'm going to work on fixing the polarity on the out of phase speaker, and I'll send out another post to update the thread with the results.

Thanks Again!

David

Andy H. · Post by **Andy H.** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:07 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by heliosdavid
 Many thanks to AndyH and everyone else for your responses... they have been very helpful and informative. I have contacted OrangeUSA and mentioned the problem to them, and they suggested correcting the wiring as you mentioned. I'm going to work on fixing the polarity on the out of phase speaker, and I'll send out another post to update the thread with the results.

Thanks Again!

David
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">8)!

Andy.

heliosdavid · Post by **heliosdavid** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:42 pm

UPDATE!

I removed the backing, and rechecked the phase/polarity using both a 9 volt battery and the Galaxy Audio device. Both re-confirmed that the polarity was incorrect on one speaker. I unhooked the cables from the positive and negative terminals on the speaker and swapped them. Sealed up the cabinet and gave it a test... Honestly, it sounds completely different... in a GREAT way.

I wanted to note that this was a ridiculously easy fix since orange 4x12 cabinets don't have any internal baffling in the way, and all of the internal connections were metal clips instead of soldier, so no soldiering was necessary.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions! I can't believe how good this cabinet sounds now!

David

heliosdavid · Post by **heliosdavid** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:56 pm

I also thought it was worth mentioning that I now have a LOT more volume coming from the cabinet.

I play in a band where the other guitar player has the RV50, and I've always found it strange that my RV100 seemed to be just as loud at as his similar volume settings... now that's definately changed.

David

cshamrick · Post by **cshamrick** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:15 pm

i bought a ppc412 that was wired wrong too. its funny because the cab was used, and i'm sure whoever got rid of it just thought it sounded terrible, needless to say i got it for a GREAT deal. His loss, my gain. i have a question though, is yours an eminence model or v30 model?

BrianGT · Post by **BrianGT** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:00 am

So pleased it worked out for you! It happens much more than you would think. It can make a cab sound really bad......like the sound isn't even leaving the cab!
Enjoy!
Brian

heliosdavid · Post by **heliosdavid** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:17 am

Mine was the vintage 30 model... and I bought it used as well. After I fixed it I was thinking that the previous owner must have disliked the tone due to the improper wiring. Outside of a mis-wired cabinet, why else would some one ever part w/an orange 4x12 cabinet??

Later!

David

Andy H. · Post by **Andy H.** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:04 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by heliosdavid
 I also thought it was worth mentioning that I now have a LOT more volume coming from the cabinet.

David<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Yes you will have. The out of phase speaker would be 'phase cancelling' a lot of the sound, especially noticeable with the bass frequencies.

Glad it is sorted.

Have to say that I'd be much happier if the speaker connections were soldered. (Orange! [:(!]) I really don't like those cheap 'spade' connectors for high power connections. Any tarnishing of the surfaces can give bad (or even worse, intermittant) electrical connection. And especially if removed / replaced a few times they can loosen off with the speaker vibrations. Bad contacts are the last thing your amps OT wants to see. Personally I see no good reason for not hard soldering a cabs internal connections - thats what I'd always do.

Andy.

Orange 4x12 Phase

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