Dual Dark questions

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Les Paul Lover
Duke of Orange
Posts: 6476
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Derby, England

Re: Dual Dark questions

Post by Les Paul Lover » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:39 pm

D|C|M|E wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:54 am
Les Paul Lover wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:55 am
D|C|M|E wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:10 am
I think it would be awesome if they brought back the Thunderverb or the OR100. Those two are so killer. I would love another chance to own one brand new with full warranty.

Maybe they'll only have the Rockerverb as a 50W/100W format head for a while. I know people are mostly rockin' on 15W to 30W heads a lot of the time these days but there are still those crazy arena rock and stoner/doom metal dudes who crave the high power. I'm one of those dudes.

I think if they revoiced the DD to be more warm like the Thunderverb line it could do a lot better. Seemed very cold and scooped to me but I'm not sure if the one I tried was in optimal condition. Even with cranking the mid on A and finding a nice middle ground for the Shape knob on B it was just a bit too lacking in the punch and warmth.

An OR100 revival seems unlikely. Orange killed those amps pretty fast, I don't think they were selling much. A great shame, the one i tried was FANTASTIC.

I haven't tried the dual dark, but no great interest in that beast from me.
Yeah, the OR100 really did have a ridiculously short run. I mean I think it was released and then totally off shelves within 2 years max. I really would have liked to see Dual Darks in more stores so I could really test them out in different settings with different cabs and guitars but I've never once run into one in a store anywhere.
If you are into doom, I would really try to get hold of an OR100. Plenty enough gain, and...... that fuzzy vintage voicing is huge and thick......
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, Tiny Terror

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

erogers
New Member
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:59 am

Re: Dual Dark questions

Post by erogers » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:28 pm

My Dual Dark 50 arrived yesterday, and I promptly opened it, made sure all the tubes were seated firmly, and then fired her up. All I can say is I am thoroughly impressed. I was able to dial in some amazingly thick, rich, overdriven tones through my PPC212 closed-back cab with a Celestion Heritage G12H(55) and G12H(75) speaker mix. I am very, very impressed with the built-in attenuator. I was able to get very deep, driven tones at surprisingly low volumes for home-practice. Although it doesn't have a very wide range of clean capability, I was able to dial in a nice, dark-sparkly clean on channel A. This was a "B-Stock" model, the last offered by the online retailer from which I ordered it. Best $1,650 I ever spent on an amp, nicely discounted from the $2,299 price tag. Full warranty and support. I am extremely happy. I can't think of anything else I could want from it. The "shape" knob is a bit of a mystery and I'm having fun experimenting with it. Yes, certain settings can produce a thin, fizzy sound, but with some patience, I have found settings with extremely deep lows and ultra-thick overdrive. The fact that I found a usable clean setting is a bonus. Totally happy with this amp. It's a keeper. Not sure why it wasn't popular enough to keep in the lineup, but that seems to be a common thread with Orange. The only way I think this amp could be "improved" is by including built-in reverb, but I can easily get that with a pedal. Excellent amp. I'm a Dual Dark convert for sure.
________________________________________________________________________________
Orange Dual Dark 50
Orange PPC212 w/Celestion Heritage G12H(55) & G12H(75)

Les Paul Lover
Duke of Orange
Posts: 6476
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Derby, England

Re: Dual Dark questions

Post by Les Paul Lover » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:17 pm

erogers wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:28 pm
My Dual Dark 50 arrived yesterday, and I promptly opened it, made sure all the tubes were seated firmly, and then fired her up. All I can say is I am thoroughly impressed. I was able to dial in some amazingly thick, rich, overdriven tones through my PPC212 closed-back cab with a Celestion Heritage G12H(55) and G12H(75) speaker mix. I am very, very impressed with the built-in attenuator. I was able to get very deep, driven tones at surprisingly low volumes for home-practice. Although it doesn't have a very wide range of clean capability, I was able to dial in a nice, dark-sparkly clean on channel A. This was a "B-Stock" model, the last offered by the online retailer from which I ordered it. Best $1,650 I ever spent on an amp, nicely discounted from the $2,299 price tag. Full warranty and support. I am extremely happy. I can't think of anything else I could want from it. The "shape" knob is a bit of a mystery and I'm having fun experimenting with it. Yes, certain settings can produce a thin, fizzy sound, but with some patience, I have found settings with extremely deep lows and ultra-thick overdrive. The fact that I found a usable clean setting is a bonus. Totally happy with this amp. It's a keeper. Not sure why it wasn't popular enough to keep in the lineup, but that seems to be a common thread with Orange. The only way I think this amp could be "improved" is by including built-in reverb, but I can easily get that with a pedal. Excellent amp. I'm a Dual Dark convert for sure.

Brilliant news!!! Glad you love it so far!!!
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, Tiny Terror

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

erogers
New Member
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:59 am

Re: Dual Dark questions

Post by erogers » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:54 am

I have a matched set of new-production Genalex Gold Lion KT77 tubes on hand and am thinking of trying them in the DD50 to extend the highs just a bit. Has anyone tried either the Gold Lion or JJ KT77s in their Dual Darks or Rockerverbs? Just curious what they might do for this amp.
________________________________________________________________________________
Orange Dual Dark 50
Orange PPC212 w/Celestion Heritage G12H(55) & G12H(75)

Les Paul Lover
Duke of Orange
Posts: 6476
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Derby, England

Re: Dual Dark questions

Post by Les Paul Lover » Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:36 pm

erogers wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:54 am
I have a matched set of new-production Genalex Gold Lion KT77 tubes on hand and am thinking of trying them in the DD50 to extend the highs just a bit. Has anyone tried either the Gold Lion or JJ KT77s in their Dual Darks or Rockerverbs? Just curious what they might do for this amp.
I've been curious about those.

I've run both JJ EL34 and Tung Sol EL34 in my Rocker 30 with great results. At the moment, I'm considering a pair of NOS RFT EL34 as they wouldn't be much more expensive than Gold Lion.

Be aware that your DD50 needs to be biased after each valve swap.....
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, Tiny Terror

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

caldurham
Rocker
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:48 pm

Re: Dual Dark questions

Post by caldurham » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:19 pm

erogers wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:54 am
I have a matched set of new-production Genalex Gold Lion KT77 tubes on hand and am thinking of trying them in the DD50 to extend the highs just a bit. Has anyone tried either the Gold Lion or JJ KT77s in their Dual Darks or Rockerverbs? Just curious what they might do for this amp.
i've used the gold lion 12ax7 gold pin tubes. loved them in anything i've put them in. but i can't say for the gold lion kt77's.

Les Paul Lover
Duke of Orange
Posts: 6476
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Derby, England

Re: Dual Dark questions

Post by Les Paul Lover » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:01 pm

caldurham wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:19 pm
erogers wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:54 am
I have a matched set of new-production Genalex Gold Lion KT77 tubes on hand and am thinking of trying them in the DD50 to extend the highs just a bit. Has anyone tried either the Gold Lion or JJ KT77s in their Dual Darks or Rockerverbs? Just curious what they might do for this amp.
i've used the gold lion 12ax7 gold pin tubes. loved them in anything i've put them in. but i can't say for the gold lion kt77's.
Did you get to compare it to other known working 12AX7?
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, Tiny Terror

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

caldurham
Rocker
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:48 pm

Re: Dual Dark questions

Post by caldurham » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:45 pm

Les Paul Lover wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:01 pm

Did you get to compare it to other known working 12AX7?
yes. i have jj's, tung sol's, ruby's and sovtek. i had a wa and a wb sovtek. preferred the gold lion gold pin 12ax7 over them all. between 3 different amps as well. my micro dark, randall diavlo, and epiphone valve junior which i do not have anymore. i'd like to get another epi valve jr to mod.

erogers
New Member
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:59 am

Re: Dual Dark questions

Post by erogers » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:19 am

Thanks for the tip. I’ll definitely rebias after installing them. I don’t know very much about PM brand valves, which are the OE set. Not sure who the original manufacterer is for the EL34s or the ECC83s. They just have “PM” printed in white on them.
________________________________________________________________________________
Orange Dual Dark 50
Orange PPC212 w/Celestion Heritage G12H(55) & G12H(75)

Les Paul Lover
Duke of Orange
Posts: 6476
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Derby, England

Re: Dual Dark questions

Post by Les Paul Lover » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:37 am

erogers wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:19 am
Thanks for the tip. I’ll definitely rebias after installing them. I don’t know very much about PM brand valves, which are the OE set. Not sure who the original manufacterer is for the EL34s or the ECC83s. They just have “PM” printed in white on them.
PM is Chinese Shuguang.

Lots of people have removed in a hurry because they're Chinese.... only to put them back in because they sounded nicer. Ymmv......
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, Tiny Terror

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

erogers
New Member
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:59 am

Re: Dual Dark questions

Post by erogers » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:32 am

I installed the Genalex Gold Lion KT77 tubes along with some new Mullard CV4004 12AX7 tubes and a NOS Brimar CV4024 12AT7. After reibiasing the amp, I love what I’m hearing from the preamp section, but the power tubes were pretty cold. I would describe them as a bit sterile sounding. I’m not saying they’re bad, but they just are not giving me what I’m looking for out of this amp. I swapped them for a new matched pair of JJ KT77s, rebiased again, and they are a huge improvement. Both the lows and highs are extended beyond the stock EL34s, and the mids seem just a tad milder, but still very solid. I may try the Tung-Sol EL34B tubes next, and maybe the JJ E34L as well, just to experiment. However, I highly recommend the JJ KT77 tubes. The Genalex tubes seemed to me like they would excel more for hifi home audio applications. Once again, I’m not saying they were bad, but the Dual Dark wasn’t the right place for them in my opinion. Thanks for all the great feedback, guys!
________________________________________________________________________________
Orange Dual Dark 50
Orange PPC212 w/Celestion Heritage G12H(55) & G12H(75)

Les Paul Lover
Duke of Orange
Posts: 6476
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Derby, England

Re: Dual Dark questions

Post by Les Paul Lover » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:17 am

erogers wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:32 am
I installed the Genalex Gold Lion KT77 tubes along with some new Mullard CV4004 12AX7 tubes and a NOS Brimar CV4024 12AT7. After reibiasing the amp, I love what I’m hearing from the preamp section, but the power tubes were pretty cold. I would describe them as a bit sterile sounding. I’m not saying they’re bad, but they just are not giving me what I’m looking for out of this amp. I swapped them for a new matched pair of JJ KT77s, rebiased again, and they are a huge improvement. Both the lows and highs are extended beyond the stock EL34s, and the mids seem just a tad milder, but still very solid. I may try the Tung-Sol EL34B tubes next, and maybe the JJ E34L as well, just to experiment. However, I highly recommend the JJ KT77 tubes. The Genalex tubes seemed to me like they would excel more for hifi home audio applications. Once again, I’m not saying they were bad, but the Dual Dark wasn’t the right place for them in my opinion. Thanks for all the great feedback, guys!

I've liked both the JJ EL34 and Tung Sol EL34B in my Rocker 30.

The tung sol do sound ever so slightly marginally better, but that could easily be explained by the wear the JJ EL34 had before.

I managed to get a pair of RFT EL34 that I should receive shortly. I'm looking forward to trying that out!!!
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, Tiny Terror

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

erogers
New Member
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:59 am

Re: Dual Dark questions

Post by erogers » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:41 am

Les Paul Lover wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:17 am
I've liked both the JJ EL34 and Tung Sol EL34B in my Rocker 30.

The tung sol do sound ever so slightly marginally better, but that could easily be explained by the wear the JJ EL34 had before.

I managed to get a pair of RFT EL34 that I should receive shortly. I'm looking forward to trying that out!!!

Tell me more about the RFT EL34s! I'm definitely interested in reading your assessment of them once you get a chance to try them out.
________________________________________________________________________________
Orange Dual Dark 50
Orange PPC212 w/Celestion Heritage G12H(55) & G12H(75)

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