Rockerverb 50 MKIII Failed

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fstrat76
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Rockerverb 50 MKIII Failed

Post by fstrat76 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:44 pm

Had a big gig last night, setup the RV50, power on but nothing, nada, dead. Luckily, the venue was 5 minutes from home and I got my 40-year old Marshall 2204 and 4x12 cab out of retirement to save me. The RV is only two years old and has been to a gig once. It worked at rehearsal Monday, dead on Friday. Maybe something happened while transporting.

At the show, I checked all cables, pulled out 4CM and plugged direct, changed speaker cables to my PPC212OB, flipped front switches, nothing. Couldn't hear a hiss but it was noisy at the venue. Output tubes glowing.

I'm about to open it up, what are some things I can check for?

Les Paul Lover
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Re: Rockerverb 50 MKIII Failed

Post by Les Paul Lover » Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:24 pm

Not much really.

It could be anything - from valve to a failed resistor or output transformer.

I would try plugging it again to see if it makes any noises and whether that's channel specific, but if it flat out doesn't work, it's difficult to help you pin point it without more info.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, Tiny Terror

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

fstrat76
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Re: Rockerverb 50 MKIII Failed

Post by fstrat76 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:38 pm

OK, so in a quiet environment, I can tap the input cable tip and get a very faint buzz.

I tap the output valves and get a noise (left one is a little louder than the other).

I saw the Phase Inverter was not pushed down all the way, I reseated it.

Still nothing.

Tapping the output valves and getting some noise leads me to believe it might be on the input/preamp side.

fstrat76
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Re: Rockerverb 50 MKIII Failed

Post by fstrat76 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:53 pm

Well, luckily it turned out to be the FX Loop 12AT7. Replaced it with a reliable very old and recently tested Mullard and all is good. Unbelievable that this happened on a two year old tube and unexpected on a top of the line amp. It is what it is I guess.

Les Paul Lover
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Re: Rockerverb 50 MKIII Failed

Post by Les Paul Lover » Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:03 pm

fstrat76 wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:53 pm
Well, luckily it turned out to be the FX Loop 12AT7. Replaced it with a reliable very old and recently tested Mullard and all is good. Unbelievable that this happened on a two year old tube and unexpected on a top of the line amp. It is what it is I guess.
Good you got it sorted. Valves are like light bulb, they can go anytime for no apparent reason.
I've had a few worn out / microphonic valves over the year, but I've never a total sudden failure yet.... fingers crossed!!!!

So lucky you were so close to home and could get your Marshall instead!!!! I've once had a valve heater connection issue at band practice..... when opened up the combo to reconnect it, the chassis pulled the speaker connector and broke the speaker spade connector..... :lol: at least it was only a practice. Ended up playing through a very disappointing bass amp.....
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, Tiny Terror

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

Sootio
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Re: Rockerverb 50 MKIII Failed

Post by Sootio » Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:19 pm

fstrat76 wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:53 pm
Well, luckily it turned out to be the FX Loop 12AT7. Replaced it with a reliable very old and recently tested Mullard and all is good. Unbelievable that this happened on a two year old tube and unexpected on a top of the line amp. It is what it is I guess.

Glad it was an easy fix. Would you mind telling us what markings were on that tube?

fstrat76
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Re: Rockerverb 50 MKIII Failed

Post by fstrat76 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:43 am

Sootio wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:19 pm
Glad it was an easy fix. Would you mind telling us what markings were on that tube?
The only marking is PM 12AT7

fstrat76
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Re: Rockerverb 50 MKIII Failed

Post by fstrat76 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:54 am

Les Paul Lover wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:03 pm
Ended up playing through a very disappointing bass amp.....
Yeah, that's the thing, playing something you're not used to. Love my Marshall, but it has several disadvantages. The Marshall doesn't have a loop or clean channel. My Fractal FX8 was all set for the RV and 4CM. I had to patch that to fake the loop. Plus I had to control clean sounds and patches live, with the guitar and volume pedal. Quite an improv type of evening.

I did get comments on how the Marshall cut through better than the RV. Was surprised to hear that, since the RV is mid based. I might have to boost the RV treble a bit.

Guess I need to put extra tubes in the stage tool kit now.

Ronnie Robinson
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Re: Rockerverb 50 MKIII Failed

Post by Ronnie Robinson » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:52 am

Marshalls really do cut through band mixes easily, compared to the RV 50 I use to own, especially so. There's something about the compressed nature of the RV tone that means it doesn't cut through a band mix so easily.... One reason I got rid of mine.
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Previously Owned - 2 xTiny Terrors, Rv50, 4 x Rocker30s
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Sootio
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Re: Rockerverb 50 MKIII Failed

Post by Sootio » Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:17 pm

fstrat76 wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:43 am
Sootio wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:19 pm
Glad it was an easy fix. Would you mind telling us what markings were on that tube?
The only marking is PM 12AT7
I'm pretty sure it's Shuguang. It's pretty common for them to fail in that position. A switch to any other tube brand seems to solve the problem permanently.

fstrat76
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Re: Rockerverb 50 MKIII Failed

Post by fstrat76 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:38 am

I've pretty much used tube amps since the 70's and have never had this happen. At this price point, the RV is supposed to be pro caliber. I just don't understand the manufacturer putting in cheap tubes.

What are the best possible tubes that I can put in this amp right now, that won't totally alter its tone?

Ronnie Robinson
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Re: Rockerverb 50 MKIII Failed

Post by Ronnie Robinson » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:59 am

PM tubes have frequency come in Orange amps for the last few years, not my favorite but they are OK, in any case, tubes of any brand can fail, it happens perhaps rarely but it does happen, its no biggie.

It's happened to me once at a gig but thankfully I took a spare amp.

Tube brand is really down to preference. JJ are popular and Orange frequency use these for the powertubes and sometimes the pre-amp tubes although when I had an RV Groove tube power tubes were fitted. Ehx are also popular.
Orange AD30 HTC
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Orange Tiny Terror HW,
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Previously Owned - 2 xTiny Terrors, Rv50, 4 x Rocker30s
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Les Paul Lover
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Re: Rockerverb 50 MKIII Failed

Post by Les Paul Lover » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:44 am

fstrat76 wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:38 am
I've pretty much used tube amps since the 70's and have never had this happen. At this price point, the RV is supposed to be pro caliber. I just don't understand the manufacturer putting in cheap tubes.

What are the best possible tubes that I can put in this amp right now, that won't totally alter its tone?
PM/ Chinese valves aren't bad.

I've read a number of forum members buying some JJ / EH or others to replace them, only to put them back in as they sounded best to them.

I don't think they are any more or less unreliable, it's just that valves can fail anytime.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, Tiny Terror

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

Sootio
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Re: Rockerverb 50 MKIII Failed

Post by Sootio » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:03 pm

Les Paul Lover wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:44 am
fstrat76 wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:38 am
I've pretty much used tube amps since the 70's and have never had this happen. At this price point, the RV is supposed to be pro caliber. I just don't understand the manufacturer putting in cheap tubes.

What are the best possible tubes that I can put in this amp right now, that won't totally alter its tone?
PM/ Chinese valves aren't bad.

I've read a number of forum members buying some JJ / EH or others to replace them, only to put them back in as they sounded best to them.

I don't think they are any more or less unreliable, it's just that valves can fail anytime.
Shuguang are fine, and a lot of people love them, especially the preamp tubes, however, their 12at7 seems to fail in the effects loop position in the newer Orange amps. It happened to both of my amps, and it's happened a few times in these pages since I've been here. Put a JJ in there and you're good to go. Easy Peasy. It doesn't happen every time but putting that info out there might save someone a trip to the tech, and I felt obligated to do so.

Jondog
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Re: Rockerverb 50 MKIII Failed

Post by Jondog » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:13 pm

Tubes just aren’t as reliable as they used to be. Was recently listening to a conversation with Friedman and a couple other reputable amp builders saying he’s having a really hard time finding good tubes anymore for his amps. He throws a bunch out from a batch before finding one that doesn’t make extra noise or flat out doesn’t work in his amps, and even then when he ships the amp it often doesn’t work when it gets to where it’s going. He said he’s been having the most problems with JJ lately which used to be good.
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