Rockerverb Tones

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blind1
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Rockerverb Tones

Post by blind1 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:37 am

Hello everyone,

I have a Rockerverb 50 Mk III and while some aspects of the amp are great, I am disappointed with the amps overall voicing. Maybe you guys can help me out with some suggestions? I'm about to sell the amp because my Marshall DSL40c gets closer to the sound.

My main complaint with the RV is that its voicing is very dark and undefined. The mid/treble control on the high gain channel barely affects the tone independently. The sound lacks a midrange presence that my ears are seeking.

I've seen some people recommend tube swaps.. does that change the voicing of the amp that greatly? I'm looking for a more Marshall-esque tone with a honking midrange. The RV sounds stunning at home, but gets easily drowned out in a band mix. The EQ doesn't make a difference: I can max out the mids, lower the bass, etc... no usable results. Did I get the wrong amp or is there something I can do to rectify this? I feel like spending so much money on an amp that I shouldn't have to buy and swap tubes and other stuff. Any help here?

Jondog
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Re: Rockerverb Tones

Post by Jondog » Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:43 pm

I think you answered your own question
I'm looking for a more Marshall-esque tone
Other than getting a marshall type amp, eq pedal or different speaker maybe do the trick.
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Ronnie Robinson
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Re: Rockerverb Tones

Post by Ronnie Robinson » Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:41 pm

While changing tubes can make some subtle changes it does n't necessarily mean your going to start getting the tones your after, maybe you just prefer the Marshall tone or maybe the RV is just not for you.

I bought the mk11 version about 5 years ago after having used an orange Rocker 30 for several years, it did have some great features but I found the overdrive channel voicing was not really for me and felt it did not cut through a band mix very well especially when the gain was set after 12 noon (unlike the R30 and AD30 I currently use now).

Maybe it's just time to cut your losses, I'm sure we have all bought an amp or guitar which did not meet expectations.
Orange AD30 HTC
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Les Paul Lover
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Re: Rockerverb Tones

Post by Les Paul Lover » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:00 pm

Sounds like you haven't got the right amp for your dream tone.

If you like the thick tones from Orange amps with more cut, you could try the To source an old Orange R30.

It isn't as smooth and warm as the RV50, it's much rawer and vintage voiced, but cuts through the mix really well.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5


Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

afjungemann
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Re: Rockerverb Tones

Post by afjungemann » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:43 pm

What guitar are you using? What pickups? Is there another guitarist? If so what amp is he using?

I can definitely understand not cutting through the mix depending on those factors. If you are using active pickups or high output pickups, I would suggest not. I feel like low output (8k or so) pickups do really well with keeping the grit and honk of the RV. Even more pronounced would be single coils.

But at the end of the day, it might not be the amp for you. No shame in that. I had to learn Marshall wasn’t really my thing the hard way too.
Rockerverb 100 MKIII
Rockerverb 50 MKIII combo
AD30TC combo
TH30c
Fender Bassman
Fender Princeton
gibson explorer custom
gibson es355
gibson es359
gibson sg custom
gibson les paul custom
gibson les paul standard
gibson les paul studio
gibson melody maker

mici88
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Re: Rockerverb Tones

Post by mici88 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:58 am

I am an owner of MK1 50W, so here are my two humble cents:

Orange Rockerverb has a character of its own - it's quite dark, fat and huge sounding amp. It won't give you that focused, mid-range tone we all know from 80s Marshalls (think hairmetal). One thing bothers me:
blind1 wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:37 am
The mid/treble control on the high gain channel barely affects the tone independently. The sound lacks a midrange presence that my ears are seeking.
That's weird, because on my setup a slight change of mid control (let's say from 11 to 1 o'clock) already makes a huuuge difference.

Another thing:
blind1 wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:37 am
The RV sounds stunning at home, but gets easily drowned out in a band mix. The EQ doesn't make a difference: I can max out the mids, lower the bass, etc... no usable results.
It's not true that RV won't cut through the mix because of its character. With every band I've played so far and that would be everything from blues to heavy metal, I had no problem to be heard, both on rehearsal (without PA) and during the show (with PA). I can even say it cuts through like hell. Remember two things:

1) popular "band mix" is quite sophisticated thing and depends on a lot of factors - venue's acoustics, loud/quiet drummer and basist, other guitarist (if you play in a two-guitar band), PA guys skills and so on. Maybe try to work out better settings altogether, because most problems can be solved simply by lowering overall band volume, trying to change both guitars (lead and rhytm) EQ registry and so on, ask basist to turn down (yes, bass players are often too loud, YMMV)
2) cutting through mix is so often misunderstood - you should be integral part of the mix, not an individual factor, instruments should complement each other, the only case when "cut through" makes sense is during a big, huge solo, but that's not the case here (think volume boost).

With that being said, you should give it another shot, because RV is amazing amp with amazing tones in it. If that helps you, here is my chain and settings:

Clean channel: volume 11:00, treble 2:00, bass 10:00
Dirty channel: volume: 11:00, gain 2:00, treble 2:00, mid 11:00, bass 2:00

Front: Jerry Cantrell Wah -> Boss TU-2 -> MXR Analog Chorus (always on, no tone cut, level 10:00, rate 10:00, depth 2:00) -> Maxon OD-9 (always on, drive 0, level 2:00, tone 12:00).
FX Loop: Boss DD-2

Les Paul Lover
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Re: Rockerverb Tones

Post by Les Paul Lover » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:16 am

mici88 wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:58 am

2) cutting through mix is so often misunderstood - you should be integral part of the mix, not an individual factor, instruments should complement each other, the only case when "cut through" makes sense is during a big, huge solo, but that's not the case here (think volume boost).

Such a valid point. Never had an issue being heard with my own RV50, MKI too.

I remember seeing a band live, metal, with RV50 MKI and peavey 6505.
To start with I was disappointed to not be able to single out the RV50. Then the RV50 player had some parts where he let the 6505 player play alone.... and it sounded so thin....
And that's when he wasn't playing that you understood the importance of the RV50 player for that band. He made the band sound HUGE!!!
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5


Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

blind1
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Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:27 am

Re: Rockerverb Tones

Post by blind1 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:50 am

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies.
afjungemann wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:43 pm
What guitar are you using? What pickups? Is there another guitarist? If so what amp is he using?

I can definitely understand not cutting through the mix depending on those factors. If you are using active pickups or high output pickups, I would suggest not. I feel like low output (8k or so) pickups do really well with keeping the grit and honk of the RV. Even more pronounced would be single coils.

But at the end of the day, it might not be the amp for you. No shame in that. I had to learn Marshall wasn’t really my thing the hard way too.
I don't think it is a guitar issue or anything (have a few different guitars: Gibson Les Paul with PAF humbuckers, PRS with Duncan Custom 5/A2P, PRS with EMG 81-85).. I think I just learned a hard lesson that the RV isn't the amp for me. I don't like its dark voicing; it has a lower-mid thing going on that doesn't vibe with my ideal sound. I've tried a number of pedals to help shape the tone a bit more on the amp to no results. The other guitarist in the band was using a Boss Katana modeling amp and it seems silly that the RV gets buried in the mix. Its like the amp is too bright and too dark at the same time.. no "oomph" to the sound. The reverb on the amp isn't great either - it seems to cause even more muddiness.

My research leads me to believe other people have similar issues too and I can't believe that folks suggest with an amp that retails for $2000 new that we should try this OD or this Boost or replace the tubes or whatever - for $2000 there shouldn't be any tweaking necessary to get it right.

I picked up a Marshall JVM 410H today and was able to dial in all the tones I want within the first few minutes - no need for extra pedals or anything to get the tone. As someone else put it, it's probably time to cut my losses and sell the RV and not worry about it anymore. I can understand why people like it, but it doesn't fit my taste.

On a positive note, the Orange 2x12 cabinet with the JVM is a match made in heaven.

afjungemann
Rocker
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Location: South Dakota

Re: Rockerverb Tones

Post by afjungemann » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:54 pm

Different strokes for different folks. The lesson I learned about Marshall’s was ironically on a jvm410. Constantly needed a noise gate and sounded really junky. Tried everything I could and never got along with it.

Classic vibed Marshall’s sound good but yeah, not my thing.

I agree, if you need pedals to make it usable, not the amp for you. Using a pedal to enhance something or whatever I get but you should be pretty pleased with the core tone if the amp is right.
Rockerverb 100 MKIII
Rockerverb 50 MKIII combo
AD30TC combo
TH30c
Fender Bassman
Fender Princeton
gibson explorer custom
gibson es355
gibson es359
gibson sg custom
gibson les paul custom
gibson les paul standard
gibson les paul studio
gibson melody maker

mici88
Tiny Terror
Posts: 142
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Location: Europe, Poland

Re: Rockerverb Tones

Post by mici88 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:09 pm

blind1 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:50 am
The other guitarist in the band was using a Boss Katana modeling amp and it seems silly that the RV gets buried in the mix. Its like the amp is too bright and too dark at the same time.. no "oomph" to the sound.
Again, mix is not about getting burried or cutting through, it is about being consistient and balanced in term of every instrument. But that's still my point of view, you may see it in a different way.
blind1 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:50 am
The reverb on the amp isn't great either - it seems to cause even more muddiness.
That refers to reverb in general, not to particular amp. Too much reverb and you'll muddy up your tone.
blind1 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:50 am
My research leads me to believe other people have similar issues too and I can't believe that folks suggest with an amp that retails for $2000 new that we should try this OD or this Boost or replace the tubes or whatever - for $2000 there shouldn't be any tweaking necessary to get it right.
That's not the case. Metal-wise, you may say the same about Mesa Boogies - these are quite expensive amps, yet tons of players tend to put Maxon OD-808 (or similar) in front to get even better tone. JCM800? I barely see it without anything to kick the front-end (RAT, DS-1). It's all about a core tone, I mean amp itself. If you like it, even if its hi-end one, there is nothing wrong to use anything what gives you something cooler (boost, eq, modulation, whatever). And that leads me to a conclusion:
blind1 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:50 am
I picked up a Marshall JVM 410H today and was able to dial in all the tones I want within the first few minutes - no need for extra pedals or anything to get the tone. As someone else put it, it's probably time to cut my losses and sell the RV and not worry about it anymore. I can understand why people like it, but it doesn't fit my taste.
Orange is just not your thing, I'm happy for you that you have found your amp!

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