Playing Orange At The Edge Of Breakup

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adkguy07
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Playing Orange At The Edge Of Breakup

Post by adkguy07 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:56 pm

I begin 3 hours this month (only) of guitar “lessons”; only they are going to be amp lessons....as it turns out. I think the “instructor” might be of some help because he is a long time pro having played in several bands and teaches at two venues.

My questions will be aimed at how do I get my Orange to enable me to play my Les Paul at the edge between crunch and “clean” so that my picking can control how much or how little crunch I can get just from my guitar's controls. As of now, I'm struggling to get this happening. I haven't hit the magic tweaks to ensure it all falls beneath my picking hand.

I'm looking for some advice on this. I'm aware Orange users like to push their amps into Metal as well as Classic Rock tones. My idea of gain extends to as much as Jimmy Page in his Zep days used....which as I've read was not all that much gain, but plenty of volume from his amps.....including his Orange amps that he's used over his career.


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D|C|M|E
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Re: Playing Orange At The Edge Of Breakup

Post by D|C|M|E » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:26 pm

What Orange model do you have?
Orange Rockerverb 100 MKIII [2017]
Orange PPC412-A [2017]
Orange PPC412 [2017]
Gibson SG Standard Silverburst [2007]
Gibson SG Standard Heritage Cherry [2016]
More than a dozen drive/Fuzz boxes.

adkguy07
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Re: Playing Orange At The Edge Of Breakup

Post by adkguy07 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:58 pm

I'm using an Orange Dark Terror which is 15 Watts switchable to 7 Watts.


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oban14
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Re: Playing Orange At The Edge Of Breakup

Post by oban14 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:09 pm

I use an OR15 so your results may vary but here is what I do.

1. Turn master volume to anywhere from 11-1pm (playing at home) depending on room you can go louder. I use 15w mode for increased headroom on cleans.

2. Start the gain below 9 am and slowly bring it up until in increments you get it where your pick attack/pickups get you the highest crunch/gain you want to use. I usually end up around 9:45-10:30 am on the gain but i also run vintage wind pickups (classic 57).

3. I then roll back the volume on my guitar to 7-8 for edge of breakup, 5 for cleans and back to 10 for full crunch if i don't feel like using pedals. Similar to you my taste is more blues/classic rock then gain.

The gain very rarely goes above 12 o clock for me unless i am reliving the 80's.

Many folks also use a boost at this spot. The EP booster seems highly regarded for orange amps and by many on here.

I am by no means a great guitarist but this works for me and gets me a Kossoff style LP tone that I really like.

Good luck on your journey. Stick with it, I started for a couple of years then quit, waited 25 years then restarted about 18 months ago and have never forgiven myself for quitting.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

adkguy07
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Re: Playing Orange At The Edge Of Breakup

Post by adkguy07 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:17 pm

oban14 wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:09 pm
I use an OR15 so your results may vary but here is what I do.

1. Turn master volume to anywhere from 11-1pm (playing at home) depending on room you can go louder. I use 15w mode for increased headroom on cleans.

2. Start the gain below 9 am and slowly bring it up until in increments you get it where your pick attack/pickups get you the highest crunch/gain you want to use. I usually end up around 9:45-10:30 am on the gain but i also run vintage wind pickups (classic 57).

3. I then roll back the volume on my guitar to 7-8 for edge of breakup, 5 for cleans and back to 10 for full crunch if i don't feel like using pedals. Similar to you my taste is more blues/classic rock then gain.

The gain very rarely goes above 12 o clock for me unless i am reliving the 80's.

Many folks also use a boost at this spot. The EP booster seems highly regarded for orange amps and by many on here.

I am by no means a great guitarist but this works for me and gets me a Kossoff style LP tone that I really like.

Good luck on your journey. Stick with it, I started for a couple of years then quit, waited 25 years then restarted about 18 months ago and have never forgiven myself for quitting.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
Thanks. It does help. At the 7 watt setting on my Dark Terror, I have controls set on it: volume 10:30am, shape at 3:00pm, and gain at +9:30am. Yes, it's scaled down gain, but where I fingerpick some notes and flat pick some notes, it seems to work for me.

In order to boost the gain and volume when I need to, I plan on gradually increasing and adjusting all 3 knobs. My Les Paul outfitted with Seth Lovers, has its volumes at 9 for the neck and 8.5 for the bridge pickup...as of now. I expect those numbers to decrease whenI start raising the amp volume. It's a balancing act...I know. The crucial test for me in all the adjustments will be whether my middle position will always maintain that “Les Paul character”.....no matter where my amp or amp controls are position.


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fiveightandten
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Re: Playing Orange At The Edge Of Breakup

Post by fiveightandten » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:48 am

The higher the master volume is, the more dynamic response the amp has. It’s as simple as that. Preamp gain doesn’t clean up that well. It’ll get you somewhere, but only so far. How loud are you playing the amp?
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adkguy07
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Re: Playing Orange At The Edge Of Breakup

Post by adkguy07 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:03 am

fiveightandten wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:48 am
The higher the master volume is, the more dynamic response the amp has. It’s as simple as that. Preamp gain doesn’t clean up that well. It’ll get you somewhere, but only so far. How loud are you playing the amp?
Not loud, really. Yesterday, I had the DT volume at nearly 11:00 o'clock, gain at 10:00 o'clock, and shape knobs at nearly 3:00 o'clock. It was about as loud as a TV turned up a bit. Conversation could take place while playing it and I still had some room left on my guitar's volumes.

Setting the DT controls as described here, gives off more character than maxing the amp volume and then bringing its gain up. The Dark Terror needs a fair amount of gain in the tone to give off that”Orange” tone; that being a fundamental ring in the tone with a hint of fuzziness in there, too.


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Re: Playing Orange At The Edge Of Breakup

Post by satchmodog » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:18 pm

I was experimenting with this the other day, but with one of my other amps(Egnater tweaker 88). When I turned the gain on the lead channel all the way to the left, I got no volume even when the master volume was pegged. So I started slowly turning the gain up and once I reached 7am, I got a nice clean tone, but it was very quiet and not super reactive. Once I hit 8am, it got a louder and super reactive. The tubes broke at every bit of pressure difference on the strings and a hard strum really growled, sustained like crazy and decayed beautifully. I'm going to try playing around with my Rocker 32 next. I'm not really a clean player, but that was fun.

beninma
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Re: Playing Orange At The Edge Of Breakup

Post by beninma » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:59 pm

This is pretty easy for me to get my Rocker 15 in this territory.

It's really just a matter of setting the pre-amp gain in the correct region and then as others mentioned you can fine tune with the EQ on the amp, volume knob on the amp, volume knob on the guitar, and your pick attack.

It is different depending on the amp you have, the pickups you have in the guitar, how close you have the pickups setup to the string, etc, etc.. so I'm not seeing recommendations for specific dial positions as useful. But for me on my Rocker 15 it's in the 11 o'clock - 1 o'clock range on the gain knob with my single coil pickups.

I have no problem getting my Yamaha THR into this range either if I pick the "lead" amp which ironically models a Marshall which feels a lot like my Orange.

adkguy07
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Re: Playing Orange At The Edge Of Breakup

Post by adkguy07 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:04 pm

I've achieved a better tone and a bit closer to my goal. My Dark Terror setting almost mirrors what
oban14 used for his OR15. My Les Paul has Seth Lovers, unpotted and medium low wind and a good match for the Dark Terror. At TV volume, I have that Orange chime happening now and I like it immensely...it's going to be my base tone with this amp. Next step for me is to choose a boost of some sort that works well with Orange. It's a subject for another thread....


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Last edited by adkguy07 on Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Wendigo
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Re: Playing Orange At The Edge Of Breakup

Post by Wendigo » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:33 pm

I'd like to add that, apart from getting your amp to the edge or breakup and rolling back a bit on the guitar (which are both things I do and are good ideas), the best way to get a classic sound like Jimmy Page's "chirp" is to use mild compression as well. Set the compressor to very low, with the amp and guitar teetering on the edge, and then bring up the compressor ever so slightly until it gets punchy but doesn't quite make it that much more distorted. Your guitar will sing for days like that, and "breathes" like the older analogue recordings.

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Re: Playing Orange At The Edge Of Breakup

Post by oban14 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:41 pm

That compressor idea sounds great. Any one you recommend with an orange?

Jondog
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Re: Playing Orange At The Edge Of Breakup

Post by Jondog » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Wendigo wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:33 pm
I'd like to add that, apart from getting your amp to the edge or breakup and rolling back a bit on the guitar (which are both things I do and are good ideas), the best way to get a classic sound like Jimmy Page's "chirp" is to use mild compression as well. Set the compressor to very low, with the amp and guitar teetering on the edge, and then bring up the compressor ever so slightly until it gets punchy but doesn't quite make it that much more distorted. Your guitar will sing for days like that, and "breathes" like the older analogue recordings.
I’ve been setting my compressor up like this the past few months. Finding a lot of versatility there.
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adkguy07
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Re: Playing Orange At The Edge Of Breakup

Post by adkguy07 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:08 am

Many thanks for the compressor tone tip. Here is a link and article from an Orange senior amp Tech on a few pedals that would help enhance my base Dark Terror/Les Paul tone. The Maxon has been recommended to me before on another forum..last year. I was personally leaning towards the Pigtronics boost, but wonder if would change the e.q. on my “base” tone significantly. What do you readers think you'd settle for?

https://orangeamps.com/articles/technic ... range-amp/

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Last edited by adkguy07 on Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fiveightandten
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Re: Playing Orange At The Edge Of Breakup

Post by fiveightandten » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:31 pm

I've also had decent results from using a compressor when I can't turn the amp up loud enough. IMO, compressors with a blend control are the most useful. You can blend the compressed signal in with dry, unaffected signal.

I have a Wampler Ego and I'm quite happy with it. It has minimal tonal coloration, and has a huge range of compression, due to the blend knob. Anything from barely perceptible, to "Under the Bridge" squash. The tone knob is also very useful. I'd say Xotic SP on a budget, Wampler Ego for something nice, and Origin Effects Cali76 compact deluxe if budget is of no concern.

Nothing compares to the real thing (cranked amp), but a good compressor works in a pinch.

-Nick
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