Advice on getting more volume?

[DistantToeJam]

Hi everybody,

I wanted to get some input on improving my rig, and have received some contradictory information from people at local guitar shops vs online.

I play a Dark Terror with a PPC112 and it's not loud enough for my band - if I'm cranked all the way up we can hardly hear me. We play pretty aggressive punk rock, so we're almost always going ham on our instruments. My drummer lent me her passive monitor recently (don't know the brand/model, but it's ancient...) and it's helped - so I go out of the 2 8 ohm channels of my Terror to the PPC112 and the monitor, placed them on different sides of the room and raised them on tables so the speakers are closer to head-height. Now it's a lot better but still, not quite loud enough. I want to have a set up with at least a little headroom for me to do things like boost into a chorus with an overdrive pedal.

So I definitely need to improve my setup - but I don't know if I only need a new cab, or both a new amp and cab? The people at my local guitar store said I might need something more powerful than a 15-watt tube amp. However, the DT is advertised for being able to handle medium-sized gigs - so I feel like it should be able to handle band practice.


As for an upgrade, I was thinking about jumping up to a PPC 212. Or should I go for a PPC412? Will a Dark Terror adequately power a 412?

Thanks for any advice you could lend!

[bclaire]

I don't think that a 15 watt amp is going to cut it through any speaker configuration if you're having difficulties already. I would go up to at least a 30 watter.

[afjungemann]

Sounds like the others could stand to turn down a little bit. If everyone plays that loud at practice, I would assume the stage mix would be pretty difficult live as well.

[Les Paul Lover]

I don't think that a 15 watt amp is going to cut it through any speaker configuration if you're having difficulties already. I would go up to at least a 30 watter.

Agree. 30w may not even be enough!!!

Sounds like the others could stand to turn down a little bit. If everyone plays that loud at practice, I would assume the stage mix would be pretty difficult live as well.

Agree again...!!!!

[Boy_Narf]

Run through the PA!

[Ronnie Robinson]

Personally I prefer a 30 water for gigs but with the few I've done with the TT HW it was plenty loud enough and that was unmiked through a 212 OB and we have what I consider to be a loud drummer.

Is it only your perception that the amps not loud enough ....? Maybe you need to hear it better. Are you stood over it and it being a closed back cab? Or have other bands members commented on it? I wonder how your instruments are set up? for example if all your instruments are positioned as on a stage and someone stands out in front are you still quieter than every one else....I would really doubt it.

Maybe you need to (dare I say it) turn down the gain......

Having said that if your in the UK pick up a R30, cheap, sounds great and excellent build quality.

[DistantToeJam]

Thanks everybody for the replies!

Funny enough - we have a bare-bones setup. I'm on guitar, we have a singer, and a drummer. No bassist or lead guitarist. Our drummer just plays f'ing loud.

My main question seems to be answered though - which is that I should get a 30-watt amp (guess the Dual Terror is in my future!). I was resisting that option because I just loooove the portability of this amp - and with future tours on the table, I want to have the tiniest rig possible that'll be up to snuff on stage. But I suppose I just need to suck it up with a bigger amp.

We changed up the room today so both my cab and monitor were on the same side of the room, facing my drummer, and the sound came through a lot clearer. It seems like a temporary solution for now.

[Boy_Narf]

Options the way I see it.

Mic just your guitar for a little extra help. Mic all the instruments and play through headphones. Or, get the drummer some lighter sticks by God! Go pickup a pair of 7a wood tips and tell him that's what he is good use if he can't rein in the Dynamics. Do an experent and have him remove his earplugs and play at a level that is comfortable with no protection.

I'm a drummer so I get it. Our guitar player uses a blues JR, and it has more than enough volume against my kit.

[DistantToeJam]

Or, get the drummer some lighter sticks by God! Go pickup a pair of 7a wood tips and tell him that's what he is good use if he can't rein in the Dynamics.

Haha my drummer already uses 7a's! She plays them reversed though and is adamant about not switching it up.

Good call on mic-ing my guitar though! I can't believe I never thought of doing that... we totally can.

[Dark Helmet]

lots of VERY good advice here, but I will add/reiterate ... dump the PPC112... they are quite anemic in my experience. just swapping to a 212 may give you all of the added punch you need. I LOVE the "big" PPC212CB (although I admitedly don't have one) and would suggest it or the 212OB as a starting point.

[Boy_Narf]

Sticks backwards? Interesting. I guess she prefers the size of the stick, but just needs a bit more weight. How about turning them around so every strike isn't an ear bleeding rim shot

There is really no point in getting more gear if you love the tone. If the rehersal PA can handle it, give it a try. Might not even need to be that loud, just having the guitar up at ear level should help. Do you have an EQ pedal? It might be worth a shot adding an EQ in your chain and boosting the mids. It might not be a volume issue, it is probably a getting lost in the mix issue.

I used to play an RV100 through a 412, and I could never hear it. The other guys were insane loud of course, but I've never found Orange cabs to cut all that well. Yea they sound amazing, but they are quite beamy. The RV100 was CRANKED! The band always said, they couldn't hear me when I was there, but once I was gone the mix felt empty and thin. Ahh, classic Orange cabs, the mix thickener In the mean time, before buying any new gear, you could try removing the back of the PPC112 to see if that helps with dispersion. Another thing is you are technically only running 7.5 watts into each of the cabs. I would ditch that monitor and run the full power into the better cab. You should get more definition and headroom that way. Perhaps change the gear setup in the room to have your amp closer to the drummer so you don't need the monitor. Few times we have setup rehearsal just like a gig. Amps next to or slightly behind the drummer, and everyone facing a pretend audience. PA speakers can then be setup as wedges to avoid feedback, or setup from the audience perspective a ways in front. Basically the same as playing a show with not pa support for the instruments.

My current band jams once in a while in the Bass players open unfinished basement. I didn't realised how much difference a poorly treated room made until we jammed in there. Seriously you can't hear anything! Usually we are in a small laundry room and everything is clear with a fairly low volume on the amps. In his room however, all of the amps needs to be cranked way past our gigging levels. Even my little PA that usually covers vocal duty is barely audible at the point of clipping.

This really sounds like the same issue I always have with my bass rig. I'm there, and it's audible, but there is no definition or cut. In the end for me, it was all about mids. Every pedal or amp I use has to have a powerful mid range, and when I'm playing in a band it gets cranked up as much as possible until it starts sounding honky.

Good luck!

Oh final option put that darn drummer behind a sheet of plexi or plywood. Even just a bit of something in front of the kit can do wonders for keeping the sound down.

[Wired]

Mic just your guitar for a little extra help. Mic all the instruments and play through headphones.

This is what we did in our last band. We brought in a -db meter to one practice and in the center of the room we were at over 130db with 2 guitars, bass, drums, vocals. So we all went in-ears and attempted to turn down (but we we're still stupid loud). It was a heck of a lot better and easier to practice at this point.

Also, when I was running my AC30 I got a tilt stand for it so it wasn't firing at the back of my knees, helped me hear it a lot better as it wasn't blasting the other guitarist in the face and have me complaining that I couldn't hear myself. We also put all the amps on one wall, tried each wall to see what worked best for everyone to hear everything clearly.

[Ade]

Also, when I was running my AC30 I got a tilt stand for it so it wasn't firing at the back of my knees, helped me hear it a lot better as it wasn't blasting the other guitarist in the face and have me complaining that I couldn't hear myself.

^^This. Angle your cab toward your head. I’ve taken to doing this with my AD15 and it actually means I can turn down a bit and get a more accurate sense of what’s coming out of my amp. I’m in a three piece (but with a bass player). There is no way my drummer could drown out my AD15.

Ade

[mici88]

Ask your bandmates to turn down or play softer.

For a very, very long time I was playing TH30 + PPC112 mini-stack and guess what - I was on 7 watt mode all the time and we could hear each other pretty damn good. Hell, I was playing MicroDark with PPC112 and it was still quite OK (not as spectacular as TH30, but allright).

[Arthon]

I played in a punk rock band for more then 2 years with a Tiny Terror and a 4x10 and I was loud enough. I now play in a Indie-Rock band with a Rocker 15 and it's 10" and I am loud enough (not even half cranked). Some years ago, I played in another indie-rock band with a Princeton Reverb (with a efficient speaker in it) and I could be heard over the Marshall JMP half-stack of the other guitarist. So loud enough is very subjective.

A 30 watts amp will give you around 3 db, it's about the same has adding another speaker with the same efficiency. So, I would try a 2x12 cab or another 1x12 and putting the second cab away form the first, to spread the sound. A 30 watts amp will have more clean headroom though, so If you want your sound to be cleaner, it's porbably the only option.

I will also buy a amp stand. Putting your amp higher will help alot in sound projection. Your ankle doesnt have ears.

The other factor many people dont consider is frequencies. Medium or more easily heard by human ears then bass or high frequencies. I dont know how you setup your amp, but you could try to boost your medium a little bit.