email sent to Orange (RE: unreliable, poorly built Orange Rocker-32)

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orange_failure
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email sent to Orange (RE: unreliable, poorly built Orange Rocker-32)

Post by orange_failure » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:10 pm

Below is an email I sent off to Orange this morning. The wording is strong - but I've been waiting for a month and during that month - it seems I've been doing nothing but shuttling dead amplifiers back and forth - a literal pain in the ass!

Code: Select all

Hi Derron,

I ordered two Orange Rocker-32 amplifiers on May 6, 2018 from an Orange dealer in San Jose, CA  - and due to the high failure rate of this model,  I’m still waiting to receive these amplifiers - one month later.  At this time, June 4th, 2018, no one has been able to tell me if replacement amplifiers have even been ordered.  It’s been about two weeks since I returned the first bad amplifier.  I returned the second bad amplifier three days ago.

Also, I would like to know if the following is possible:

Is it possible to buy an Orange Rocker-32 without a volume pot that is full of static?   

I shot some video demonstrating this obnoxious problem on a brand new $1100 amplifier.  Keep in mind that I bought two Rocker-32 amps, both died immediately and subsequently they were returned to the dealer - those amplifiers are not in my possession.  The amplifier in this video is the loaner amplifier from the dealer.  All three Orange Rocker-32 amps have severe static on the volume knob - oddly just the clean channel.

Here is the video I shot and posted to YouTube.  I certainly hope you or someone from Orange will have a look - as I feel this alone is a VERY concerning issue for an amplifier that is new and cost $1100.

https://youtu.be/hNgDO6hRphM?t=50s

https://youtu.be/v5SWzFVdYCw?t=13s

Static on the volume potentiometer on three brand new amplifiers at this price point is very bad indeed - but considering how severe the other problems were (fuses blowing on two brand new amps) - well, I just have to write this letter to Orange.   

Based on our conversation yesterday, on June 4, the diagnosis over the phone is that all three amplifiers were subject to shipping damage that caused both the power tubes and preamp tubes to go bad - resulting in symptoms previously described.   Bad tube(s) in the preamp - explains the static in the volume potentiometer.  The diagnosis also concluded that a likely cause of the HT fuse blowing on the remaining two amplifiers would also be due to bad power tubes. 

Why are these amplifiers being sold for such a high price, as new, when they are received with bad tubes?   If it's true that some percentage of tube amps regularly die and/or get static on their knobs as result of shipping - and swapping tubes fixes this THEN why didn’t the dealer simply swap these tubes in the first place to save all this trouble?

Is it possible to buy an Orange amp with undamaged tubes?  Or, should I find another brand?   I’m sorry for being so blunt, but I spent over $2200 one month ago on an amplifiers being sold as brand new, I and still do not have these amps due to the extremely poor quality.

Also, the condition of the amplifiers were terrible - the very first amp I received showed clear evidence of rust. I’ve documented this in a video.  The second and third amplifiers shipped to the dealer this month where in less than new condition - one amp had slight damage to the grill cloth and on the other amp something resembling mold or dirt was on the outside of amplifier.  The dealer cleaned that off right in front of me as they unboxed these amplifiers. 

I like the concept of the Orange Rocker-32 - but based on my experience these amplifiers are so poorly built that they should not be sold.   My bandmates are telling me that if I had any sense I’d buy something else.  I’m considering Mesa Boogie (I could buy that tomorrow and bring it home on the same day).  I don’t think the two replacement Orange amps have been ordered and I spent over $2200 a month ago.  I’m still waiting.

I hope Orange takes this seriously.

 

Jondog
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Re: email sent to Orange (RE: unreliable, poorly built Orange Rocker-32)

Post by Jondog » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:17 pm

Whats your point. We’ve been here already. You’re talking to a bunch of happy Orange users. Can’t wait to watch your video about Billy.
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orange_failure
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Re: email sent to Orange (RE: unreliable, poorly built Orange Rocker-32)

Post by orange_failure » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:25 pm

My point is to resolve this issue quickly by getting Orange's attention. I know you like your Orange amp - but all three that I came across have undeniably severe issues. Do you really expect me to do nothing and/or say nothing? That's not me. Sorry. Also, keep in mind that I SPENT over $2200 a month ago and still do not have ANY amplifiers yet.

Jondog
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Re: email sent to Orange (RE: unreliable, poorly built Orange Rocker-32)

Post by Jondog » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:28 pm

orange_failure wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:25 pm
My point is to resolve this issue quickly by getting Orange's attention. I know you like your Orange amp - but all three that I came across have undeniably severe issues. Do you really expect me to do nothing and/or say nothing? That's not me. Sorry. Also, keep in mind that I SPENT over $2200 a month ago and still do not have ANY amplifiers yet.
Your dealer should be able to solve the problem. The amp is warrantied. Get them to put different preamp tubes in, go from there. I’d rather not attach labels, but you’re being ignorant.
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orange_failure
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Re: email sent to Orange (RE: unreliable, poorly built Orange Rocker-32)

Post by orange_failure » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:35 pm

Ah, the name calling! But, can you support your argument or do you generally call people names when you get frustrated by hearing something you don't like?

You've missed the point by many miles. These are brand new amplifiers.

Jondog
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Re: email sent to Orange (RE: unreliable, poorly built Orange Rocker-32)

Post by Jondog » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:49 pm

orange_failure wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:35 pm
Ah, the name calling! But, can you support your argument or do you generally call people names when you get frustrated by hearing something you don't like?

You've missed the point by many miles. These are brand new amplifiers.
No, as a matter of fact I don’t. Feel free to make a video about it. I’m not frustrated at all. I could go on, I got good ones, but my break is almost over. Got real work to get back to, real problems to solve with people who care to have them solved.
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Wired
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Re: email sent to Orange (RE: unreliable, poorly built Orange Rocker-32)

Post by Wired » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:50 pm

People are trying to be helpful, but it's hard to help you when you won't help yourself.

I'm not sure what the stores are like where you live, but up here 4/5 of the stores have onsite amp techs, and the 1/5 store sublets their amp issues to other techs. Orange amps do not have a history of poor reliability. It seems like you got a bad batch of tubes, the store should be able to install new tubes and you should be good to go.

The Rocker 32 does not have a reputation for being an amp with issues, Mary Spender tours with hers and loves it to pieces. So much so that she worked her way into an Orange rep position.

Now when it comes to returns... where is your shop? Because if memory serves Orange USA is located in Atlanta and the guys they are awesome. (source: I flew from Edmonton, AB to Atlanta to meet the guys. yea, Orange nut here!) They do what they can to help out. but you can't expect them to drop what they are doing and look at your amp that day. When you car breaks down, do you show up at the shop and get all upset because they kick another customers vehicle off the hoist to inspect yours right then and there? This isn't how the game works. You need to wait and have patience like everyone else.

So you spent $2200 on two amps, I spent $2500 on one amp. Does not make me entitled to get faster service than anyone else. Amps are expensive, you used your hard earned money to get it and you are incredibly frustrated and disappointed that your beautiful new Orange amps are failing you. What do you want the FORUM to do? The AMP COMMUNITY to do? None of us, including Billy, are employed by Orange.

This is a very very strange thing to see, and of all my time following Orange amps (and working as a dealer for one from 2003-2006) this is incredibly unheard of. I had ONE amp (an AD30R) show up DOA. Cracked PC board. must have been a shipping issue as it was the dead of winter. It happens.
Last edited by Wired on Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-LK
RV50, Vox AC30, Gibson LP Trad '14, Gibson ES-335 '04, PRS Cu24 '10, Fender Tele Pro, Gretsch Powerjet

orange_failure
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Re: email sent to Orange (RE: unreliable, poorly built Orange Rocker-32)

Post by orange_failure » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:52 pm

Well, hopefully Orange does the right thing. And, yes, everything here I've written is recorded.

Wired
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Re: email sent to Orange (RE: unreliable, poorly built Orange Rocker-32)

Post by Wired » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:54 pm

orange_failure wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:52 pm
Well, hopefully Orange does the right thing. And, yes, everything here I've written is recorded.
the sounds the amps are making are recorded or the public statements made by Orange amp users. None of us work for Orange, including Billy.
-LK
RV50, Vox AC30, Gibson LP Trad '14, Gibson ES-335 '04, PRS Cu24 '10, Fender Tele Pro, Gretsch Powerjet

orange_failure
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Re: email sent to Orange (RE: unreliable, poorly built Orange Rocker-32)

Post by orange_failure » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:09 pm

I'm not here for tech advice - so that probably came off as me deflecting honest help. I'm sorry if it came off that way - I didn't mean that at all. These are more like protest posts - when you've reached a level of frustration and need a way to bring attention to a problem. I can fix something like this myself - that is well within my capability - and I'm genuinely happy to know others here are willing to help should I need it or ask for it. Thank you in advance.

To answer your question, I threw the gauntlet down in an attempt to get some action directly from Orange. If Orange is a good company then these matters will be cleared up in good time - but these issues have been ongoing for a month.

Now, I really like the Orange Rocker-32 and I want these amps to work. But, the fact is 2 out of 3 amps died and 3 out of 3 amps have an awful static on the volume knob. I understand that's a small sample space to judge an entire product line. It sounds like statistically this isn't likely - and that's truly great to hear. Orange please send me my amps that paid for one month ago!

As for the store/dealer: I really like my dealer a lot (they are in San Jose, CA) - I've been going there since the late 90s. They're great people, but today it occurred to me that they could have swapped tubes two weeks ago when I brought in the bad amp. Instead they sent the amp back to Orange. Maybe they couldn't afford the time to troubleshoot a new amp. Maybe they simply don't do any amplifier repair - including changing tubes. Maybe they didn't want to effectively pay for tubes by using tubes taken from their own stock. I don't know - but my position all along has been the same. A brand new amp should work and if it doesn't you send it back.


Wired wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:50 pm
People are trying to be helpful, but it's hard to help you when you won't help yourself.

I'm not sure what the stores are like where you live, but up here 4/5 of the stores have onsite amp techs, and the 1/5 store sublets their amp issues to other techs. Orange amps do not have a history of poor reliability. It seems like you got a bad batch of tubes, the store should be able to install new tubes and you should be good to go.

The Rocker 32 does not have a reputation for being an amp with issues, Mary Spender tours with hers and loves it to pieces. So much so that she worked her way into an Orange rep position.

Now when it comes to returns... where is your shop? Because if memory serves Orange USA is located in Atlanta and the guys they are awesome. (source: I flew from Edmonton, AB to Atlanta to meet the guys. yea, Orange nut here!) They do what they can to help out. but you can't expect them to drop what they are doing and look at your amp that day. When you car breaks down, do you show up at the shop and get all upset because they kick another customers vehicle off the hoist to inspect yours right then and there? This isn't how the game works. You need to wait and have patience like everyone else.

So you spent $2200 on two amps, I spent $2500 on one amp. Does not make me entitled to get faster service than anyone else. Amps are expensive, you used your hard earned money to get it and you are incredibly frustrated and disappointed that your beautiful new Orange amps are failing you. What do you want the FORUM to do? The AMP COMMUNITY to do? None of us, including Billy, are employed by Orange.

This is a very very strange thing to see, and of all my time following Orange amps (and working as a dealer for one from 2003-2006) this is incredibly unheard of. I had ONE amp (an AD30R) show up DOA. Cracked PC board. must have been a shipping issue as it was the dead of winter. It happens.

Wired
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Re: email sent to Orange (RE: unreliable, poorly built Orange Rocker-32)

Post by Wired » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:42 pm

it truly sounds like Orange got a bad batch of tubes and the dealer didn't want to deal with it in house. This might be more an of issue with the dealer than Orange amps themselves.

Throwing down the gauntlet and trying to get results is fine, but it's doing it in the right places. This is a community page, and I don't think Orange is very active on it if at all. So by coming here isn't really going to help your case with Orange as a company.

I agree, it's very frustrating, I can feel that. I've been there myself, with my new home that I built and had multiple water leaks in the first year. It's very upsetting wen you spend good money on something and then get burned.

If I were in your shoes I'd be asking for a refund from the dealer and just tell them to keep the amps. I would then take my money to another dealer and buy one amp and see how it goes. If the results are the same, well I don't think there is saving the brand at that point from your perspective, which is understandable. Time to look at a different amp or company at that point.

Orange have a very unique sound and look to them, so you will be hard pressed to replace that, so I truly hope it works out and that you get to enjoy the sweet sweet tone that we all love here.
-LK
RV50, Vox AC30, Gibson LP Trad '14, Gibson ES-335 '04, PRS Cu24 '10, Fender Tele Pro, Gretsch Powerjet

orange_failure
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Re: email sent to Orange (RE: unreliable, poorly built Orange Rocker-32)

Post by orange_failure » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:00 pm

Yeah, I've said plenty. I just wanted to make it public for a few reasons. I'm still expecting all of this to be deleted and I expect to be banned for being a heretic. Understandably, a foe in Orange friendly territory will never be received well - protests aren't often received in good light.

I've called Orange a couple of times and sent off an email this morning. The response from Orange has been a bit on the tepid side - for whatever reason. I don't mean they weren't friendly or anything like that - more like they weren't proactive about it saying something like 'we'll ship new ones out - red shipping'.

Bad tubes seems to be the consensus - and I tend to believe that.

I've got store credit from the dealer. I don't know off hand what their policy is with regard to a cash refund. I'll have to ask.

I'll have to walk into another store and examine a Rocker-32 just to see if every one I bump into have scratchy volume knobs. I hope not.

My problem is that I really want the Orange Rocker-32 to be an awesome amp - and it was for a brief moment. But, it is pointless if I'm beating a dead horse.

Well, no hard promises - but I'll do my best to refrain from continuing to flame.

Wired wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:42 pm
it truly sounds like Orange got a bad batch of tubes and the dealer didn't want to deal with it in house. This might be more an of issue with the dealer than Orange amps themselves.

Throwing down the gauntlet and trying to get results is fine, but it's doing it in the right places. This is a community page, and I don't think Orange is very active on it if at all. So by coming here isn't really going to help your case with Orange as a company.

I agree, it's very frustrating, I can feel that. I've been there myself, with my new home that I built and had multiple water leaks in the first year. It's very upsetting wen you spend good money on something and then get burned.

If I were in your shoes I'd be asking for a refund from the dealer and just tell them to keep the amps. I would then take my money to another dealer and buy one amp and see how it goes. If the results are the same, well I don't think there is saving the brand at that point from your perspective, which is understandable. Time to look at a different amp or company at that point.

Orange have a very unique sound and look to them, so you will be hard pressed to replace that, so I truly hope it works out and that you get to enjoy the sweet sweet tone that we all love here.

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Re: email sent to Orange (RE: unreliable, poorly built Orange Rocker-32)

Post by bclaire » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:12 pm

Jondog wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:17 pm
Whats your point. We’ve been here already. You’re talking to a bunch of happy Orange users. Can’t wait to watch your video about Billy.
:mrgreen:

Jondog
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Re: email sent to Orange (RE: unreliable, poorly built Orange Rocker-32)

Post by Jondog » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:54 pm

bclaire wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:12 pm
Jondog wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:17 pm
Whats your point. We’ve been here already. You’re talking to a bunch of happy Orange users. Can’t wait to watch your video about Billy.
:mrgreen:
I’m not even kidding https://youtu.be/-zcBbbdjpEY
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Re: email sent to Orange (RE: unreliable, poorly built Orange Rocker-32)

Post by Les Paul Lover » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:07 pm

Jondog wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:54 pm
bclaire wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:12 pm
Jondog wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:17 pm
Whats your point. We’ve been here already. You’re talking to a bunch of happy Orange users. Can’t wait to watch your video about Billy.
:mrgreen:
I’m not even kidding https://youtu.be/-zcBbbdjpEY
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Didn't have the time to listen the rant, but that's so funny!!!!

But seriously OP.... you don't have something meaningful to do instead? :shock:
Such a waste of time and energy. You do know we only live once, right?
Ant

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