NGD! but with some questions...

[Boy_Narf]

Hello Everyone!

So...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1R8fQdYURbo8xTzE7

I've been drooling over these since they were announced late last year and finally scraped up some cash to ordered one. Aside from the tackiest rear logo in the world (ONLY A GIBSON IS GOOD ENOUGH), I think it looks pretty sharp. I'm actually a fan of the vintage font. Anyhow, the guitar sound killer. Cleans are shockingly pristine (finally some competition for my tele). That said, the finishing is well, very Gibson

It came fresh out of the box with scratches on it. Not just a few like all over the body (must a been a Friday for the buffing guy). Also there were a few larger ones around the pickguard. I thought it was just a smudge and tried to wipe it off only to add another mark with my nail (not at all durable). There is also what looks to be grain tear out on the fingerboard near the joint causing the finish to be lumpy from the 12th or so fret all the way up. Also around the same area, it seems like the rosewood may have shrunk leaving a bit of a lip as opposed to a smooth transition from the neck to the FB.

I remember when I bought my LPJ nearly 10 years ago, I went through the same thing. First one was a disaster and I ended up ordering another one which had it's own finishing issues but sounded even better (so I kept it).

Nothing on the SG inhibits the play-ability, but this is a decent chunk of change. I haven't bought a guitar at this level/price for nearly 10 years so I don't mind splurging a bit for something unique, but I expect quality. I was ready to return this thing immediately after I got it home, but I gave it a second change and man does it ever sound good. What do you guys think, and how is Gibson QC these days? Is this kind of "what you get" from an American Gibson?

Thank everyone,

[caldurham]

you're probably going to get a lot of different answers to this question.

i'll give you my take as short as possible and please take it with a grain of salt.

i live near the gibson plant in nashville so over the years i have had the chance to talk to more than a few people who have built the guitars themselves. i've had friends that have worked for gibson as well. from their experiences from within gibson and seeing how it operates and how upper management drives decisions that trickle down to guitar building i'd say that yes gibson's QC has gone down drastically over the years, they are becoming ridiculously overpriced and they are relying on the prestige of their brand image to keep going.

i am probably one of the few people that actually wants to see gibson go under. not really because i hate gibson (which i don't, my unicorn guitar is the 2012 seven string gibson flying v and i also really really want an 02 gibson crescent flying v.) but because i am tired of seeing companies basically turn into crap and after being bought out by investment firms and their ilk and continue going just because the CEO and upper board members have these circles where they are 'too big to fail' and their circle friends can bail them out. no i think it is time they suffer the consequences as well as other companies like them. or let me say managed like them.

right now gibson USA is in trouble. they are in debt up to their eyeballs, their creditors are wanting a new CEO before they offer any kind of rescue deal. and honestly their CEO should have been ousted years ago, that man is a psychopath. and i am not playing or speaking metaphorically when i say that. i seriously doubt ole' Henry Juszkiewicz is going anywhere without one helluva fight. their moody's credit rating is horrible and to top it off they are getting sued for 50 million by the makers of the hated robot tuners.

honestly i hope they go under. i'd hate to see what happend to harley happen to gibson, in a lot of ways it is already happening. and i love my harley but i'm sick of what they've become. stop trying to sell me a brand to appease the bank accounts of your board members and give me something worth more than that .... give me quality.

and ok not so short

[Boy_Narf]

Yes I find their prices have gone up, but just about the same as the big F.

I know their QC has been going down hill, but it seems to be the theme in the industry these days. I've been through a few brand new Zildjian cymbals in the past few years and they all came with factory blemishes or defects in the finish. All were either exchanged or returned with the exception of my latest. It sounded so dang good I just had to keep it I did email Zildjian support and told them to get their sh1t together

But we are talking something that is 1/5 the price. It's fine that they are asking a premium price for an "AMERICAN MADE" barebones guitar, but I expect it to be flawless. I've been trolling the web for the past few hours and read some spooky stories about guys buying $4K+ Gibsons with similar issues. Looks like they just blame it on the NITRO! When in doubt right?

So there is a legit scratch under the pickguard, and I found the nitro that is sprayed over the nut is already flaking off but here is my best attempt at capturing the fingerboard issue:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Y2K4fMMUJexT35Q6A

The "edge" between the finger board and neck starts at fret 6, and the waviness in the finish starts at fret 12.

Keep in mind I have a LPJ (which I love) which aside from some off color filler in the fingerboard (yes from the factory), and a bit of chipping around the bridge posts, is pretty much flawless. I also have an early 2000's LP Studio that doesn't have a single problem. Guess it's just luck of the draw.

I called the store and they basically said "oh yea classic Gibson, killer tone, but awful finishing". He said if I love the sound and can get over the blemishes, best to just deal with it. He mentioned it's pretty rare to get a Gibson these days that doesn't have some sort of issue... Very reassuring sales guy

Am I'm being too picky here? Or is this all standard stuff?

***I see that a store in the north has one in stock, so I might pop up there and see what kind of condition it's in.

P.S. On the going out of business note, most likely set in stone thanks to Tronical I was thinking it would be cool if Fender, or something like that swooped up just the custom shop and beefed the QC. I know there is huge demand for top of the line Gibsons, but in all honesty if I'm looking for a budget guitar they would be one of the last companies I would look at. Heck the $600 Godin A6U I just bought is flawless, and it's a much more complicated guitar to build than a JR.

[caldurham]

I know their QC has been going down hill, but it seems to be the theme in the industry these days.

i disagree here in a way. i think yes it has been a theme in the 'industry' but only applied to the larger companies like gibson or like harley. i've had great quality from smaller brands and there are a lot of 'no-name' guitar brands that are coming up that should be making guitar companies like gibson and fender shaking in their boots, brands like harley benton or agile.

But we are talking something that is 1/5 the price. It's fine that they are asking a premium price for an "AMERICAN MADE" barebones guitar, but I expect it to be flawless. I've been trolling the web for the past few hours and read some spooky stories about guys buying $4K+ Gibsons with similar issues.

well anything 'hand-crafted' is going to have flaws. though gibson has been using more and more cnc to make their guitars for a while now.

want some real scary stories talk to the guys that actually build the things and some of the stuff they hide that customers will never see. though i am sure the same happens at all the major manufacturers of guitars where quotas have to be met. though i do not think i can ever remember any large guitar company that has actually put a picture of a guitar with a cracked headstock on it's main website for their own marketing. and that was the second time that they had done something like that in less than a year. then instead of taking new pictures of a good guitar they just photshop the crack out of the one pic lol.
before the photshop gibson did ....

after the photoshop gibson did to take care of the crack.....


and here is the $4000 les paul that gibson used for their own marketing that has damage on the finish ....



and again when they got 'busted' instead of taking new pictures htye photoshop'd the damaged ones ....



i may be the only person to think like this but them using photoshop to correct that tells me that they aren't committed to quality but to quick fixes.

So there is a legit scratch under the pickguard, and I found the nitro that is sprayed over the nut is already flaking off but here is my best attempt at capturing the fingerboard issue:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Y2K4fMMUJexT35Q6A

The "edge" between the finger board and neck starts at fret 6, and the waviness in the finish starts at fret 12.

Am I'm being too picky here? Or is this all standard stuff?

i don't think you are being picky at all. i don't know what you paid for that sg junior but i know they retail new for around 1200 - 1400. if i paid that for a new guitar and the neck looked like the pic you showed i'd take the thing back in a heart beat. in fact i think maybe this too is part of the problem. too many people just settling for what they get from gibson because it is a gibson, that brand appeal. if people keep doing that gibson will definitely be more and more comfortable putting out crap.

P.S. On the going out of business note, most likely set in stone thanks to Tronical I was thinking it would be cool if Fender, or something like that swooped up just the custom shop and beefed the QC. I know there is huge demand for top of the line Gibsons, but in all honesty if I'm looking for a budget guitar they would be one of the last companies I would look at. Heck the $600 Godin A6U I just bought is flawless, and it's a much more complicated guitar to build than a JR.

i bought a brand new translucent black dean v last year with a scalloped neck and a flame maple top for around $600. never bought a dean before never had a desire to and never was a dean fan. i wouldn't say it is flawless but for around $600 i damn sure got my money's worth and then some. the fretwork on it is absolutely amazing. there were no doubts about the thing quality wise when i got it and the flaws it does have are, in my view, completely normal for almost any price range of guitar. and not that i am an expert by no stretch of the imagination but ever since i have slowly started to learn how to build and finish my own guitars or refinish older guitars i have started paying a lot more attention to how well a guitar is ultimately put together and finished.


it's hard to say with all this really. and i know a LOT of people have very strong feelings when it comes to this sort of thing.

[Boy_Narf]

Interesting. Yes I think I will go back on Sunday and get them to bring in another one. If the guy tries to talk me out of it again, I'll just return it and go to another store. The neck finish/lip is what bothers me the most. I doubt it's a common issue, as I've read every review on this thing, and not one mention of the same things.

[Les Paul Lover]

I'm surprised that neck made it through production.

Swap it!!!! I'm sure the next one will sound just as good!!!!

[adkguy07]

It is a shame what's going on today with regard to quality control not only in the world of guitars; especially from the well known brands of a lot of other products. The business world today is shaped around quotas, and if not, profit margins. It especially true of a company that may be just one entity in a conglomerate type of organization. Control moves to the top of the chain where making quarterly earnings estimates play a huge role. Therefore, IMHO, quality control becomes not so important. I go back to the 50's when some products were marked “S” for second grade; meaning there was something amiss with the item and no self-respecting company would dare charge full retail price for it. The items ended up in a factory store where buyer could hope to purchase a quality item with a blemish for quite a bit less than a retail shop. I'm referring to say, shoes which everyone needed. I lived not far from an area which was, in the day, the shoe capital of America. All the surrounding towns were involved in the completion of a pair of shoes. Companies had to produce quality, otherwise it could effect an entire area of those towns.

Those days are a bygone era and now we find products in stores, would never have been up for sale back then. Quality and preservation of brand name were a lot more important then. Just my 2 cents.


adkguy07

[Jondog]

Send that back. Been thinking about getting an SG, but after everything I’m reading, which is pretty bad for Gibson, I’m looking at alternatives. Theres better quality out there for less. Even the clones.

[Boy_Narf]

I checked out the one at the north store earlier today. Much better finishing. Only issues on this one is some spray over on the fingerboard from the 12th fret on, top and bottom about 1/2 and inch worth. I sent a pic to my guitar tech and he said he can clean it up super easy. That said, how did that get through inspection in the first place? Legit that could have been fixed in a matter of seconds.

Aside from that and what looks to be a bit of hair under the finish near the nut (not sure if it's a hair or crack will investigate further tomorrow) everything else is great. I'll be heading back to do the exchange tomorrow afternoon.

[Ronnie Robinson]

Send that back. Been thinking about getting an SG, but after everything I’m reading, which is pretty bad for Gibson, I’m looking at alternatives. Theres better quality out there for less. Even the clones.

Buy 2nd hand! I'm a massive fan of them. SGs can be great but I would nt buy anything made in the last 5 years.... I've found that Sgs just don't have the desirability of Les Paul's and people buy them and some just don't get on with them....this means some people are more willing to negotiate especially if their Sg has n't sold.....look for a 61 reissue if you can.

[Ronnie Robinson]

Return it..... I would n't accept it ....

[Les Paul Lover]

It's difficult to understand how such a fretboard makes it through.


It's a great shame, as my 2nd hand, 2012 lowly 70s Tribute SG came to me not only mint, but in perfect condition, and with some of the best fret work I've seen.

[Jondog]

Send that back. Been thinking about getting an SG, but after everything I’m reading, which is pretty bad for Gibson, I’m looking at alternatives. Theres better quality out there for less. Even the clones.

Buy 2nd hand! I'm a massive fan of them. SGs can be great but I would nt buy anything made in the last 5 years.... I've found that Sgs just don't have the desirability of Les Paul's and people buy them and some just don't get on with them....this means some people are more willing to negotiate especially if their Sg has n't sold.....look for a 61 reissue if you can.

Yeah, had a standard several years ago that was great, wish I kept it. Love the look of the 61, but doesn’t it have the slim taper neck? Thats no good for me. I’m checking out the Guild S100 re-issue. Has a soft U neck on it, which I like. I play baseball bats on strats and teles!

[Boy_Narf]

Resolved. Guitar returned. Killer sounding but just felt like I was getting ripped off due to the finishing. Also, the guy I was dealing with wasn't amazing. Super pushy and made me feel like an idiot. Won't be shopping with him again.

Onto the next one! Plenty of axes out there.

[Wendigo]

Good you sent it back. My jaw dropped when I saw your fretboard pic man, and I already have vowed to never buy another Gibson (barring some older ones that are too good to pass up). Put it this way: I have a second hand Yamaha SG2000 that's been kicking around for 40 years....FORTY YEARS. And it's in better shape than your brand new SG Junior. In fact it's flawless apart from a couple chips on the back of the headstock corners. Draw your own conclusions from that.