Traded my CB 2x12 for an OB 2x12

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Dexter211275
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Traded my CB 2x12 for an OB 2x12

Post by Dexter211275 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:35 am

I always thought I preferred closed back cabs, only open or semi-open Ive ever owned have been in combos. Ive been envious of my friend's tone ever since we played with them last summer. His Orange 2x12 just sounds so massive with his RV100 even at the 50 watt setting. My 2x12 just didn't fill the room the same and sound as three dimensional as his did, figured it was just how he stacked it in his road case when playing as opposed to mine being on the stage or it was his amp etc...Just found out yesterday he has an open back cab, I had never even played an OB Orange. I was never interested in them because I know they emphasize high end and are better for cleaner sounds, exact opposite of what I want. However, my Orange is really woofy with my new 6505+ and it just didn't seem to project and fill even our rehearsal space, far too directional. Found a local guy on CL wanting to trade his Orange 2x12 OB with a road case for an Orange CB. Met up with him today and A-B'd the two cabs and I actually preferred the OB. Still had plenty of low end without being woofy and I finally get what people mean when they talk about some amps sound like they have a blanket over them. Thats exactly how my CB sounded compared to the OB. The OB was just more airy and really projected the sound around the room quite nicely. Guess I prefer the OB! Oh and my back thanks me! I can't believe the OB is only 9 pounds lighter, feels like it weighs half what the CB weighs.

onetracker
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Re: Traded my CB 2x12 for an OB 2x12

Post by onetracker » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:01 pm

to my ears:

closed back - outdoors, big venues
open back - everything else
what can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof

Ronnie Robinson
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Re: Traded my CB 2x12 for an OB 2x12

Post by Ronnie Robinson » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:58 am

The music I play is quite varied and I much prefer an open back cab in all circumstances. Ive got an Orange 212 and a 212 vertical cab from Zilla - both excellent Ive recommend then to anyone I like the additional air given ro the sound and the drummer likes it as well.
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Dexter211275
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Re: Traded my CB 2x12 for an OB 2x12

Post by Dexter211275 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:07 pm

What I have noticed so far is the OB sounds thinner at low volumes, it doesn't have that chunky low end until I start to turn the amp up. Still not as much low end as the CB but thats not a bad thing once you are in a mix with a bass player and drummer anyways. It sounds less congested, the CB felt like the sound was being muffled and trapped in there although I loved the thumpy sound. Besides, the OB Orange is not really that open, 70% of the cab is still covered, so that makes a difference rather than a true open back.

Mystic38
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Re: Traded my CB 2x12 for an OB 2x12

Post by Mystic38 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:38 pm

To my ears:

CB: long arms + under 40 + 6 pack
OB: normal arms + over 40 + bottle of bourbon
-Ian-

Orange Rocker 30c, PPC212 & PPC112, Fender DRRI, Marshall 2266
2012 Gibson LP Standard, 2001 Gibson LP DC Standard
2009 Fender Am. Standard Strat, 1999 Fender Am. Hardtail Strat
2014 G&L Fallout

***insert great photos of gear here***

fiveightandten
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Re: Traded my CB 2x12 for an OB 2x12

Post by fiveightandten » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:32 pm

Dexter211275 wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:35 am
I always thought I preferred closed back cabs, only open or semi-open Ive ever owned have been in combos. Ive been envious of my friend's tone ever since we played with them last summer. His Orange 2x12 just sounds so massive with his RV100 even at the 50 watt setting. My 2x12 just didn't fill the room the same and sound as three dimensional as his did, figured it was just how he stacked it in his road case when playing as opposed to mine being on the stage or it was his amp etc...Just found out yesterday he has an open back cab, I had never even played an OB Orange. I was never interested in them because I know they emphasize high end and are better for cleaner sounds, exact opposite of what I want. However, my Orange is really woofy with my new 6505+ and it just didn't seem to project and fill even our rehearsal space, far too directional. Found a local guy on CL wanting to trade his Orange 2x12 OB with a road case for an Orange CB. Met up with him today and A-B'd the two cabs and I actually preferred the OB. Still had plenty of low end without being woofy and I finally get what people mean when they talk about some amps sound like they have a blanket over them. Thats exactly how my CB sounded compared to the OB. The OB was just more airy and really projected the sound around the room quite nicely. Guess I prefer the OB! Oh and my back thanks me! I can't believe the OB is only 9 pounds lighter, feels like it weighs half what the CB weighs.
PPC212 = Lots of low end, tons of top end in the line of fire, no midrange, extremely directional with minimal dispersion off axis. Big and heavy. Grunty sound that is most prominent in the low end and low mids.

PPC212OB = Light on the low end. Much more midrange, much more open. Highs aren't as strident and directional. Much better dispersion. Doesn't sound as full as the PPC212. Notably lighter and easier to carry. Open, present, and warm.

I prefer the OB. The only thing it's really lacking compared to the closed back cab is low end. And it's not as punchy. But, for me, for live application, it just plain sounds better. I have 2 of them loaded with different speakers. I'm more on the rock side than metal though, so YMMV.

-Nick
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Dexter211275
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Re: Traded my CB 2x12 for an OB 2x12

Post by Dexter211275 » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:59 am

I ended up hating how the OB sounded in the mix with the band. Ended up getting a Mesa Rectifier 2x12 which has plenty of low end and punch but doesn't sound as dark and muddy as my Orange did with my 6505+

Gray
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Re: Traded my CB 2x12 for an OB 2x12

Post by Gray » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:06 am

Dexter211275 wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:59 am
Ended up getting a Mesa Rectifier 2x12 which has plenty of low end and punch but doesn't sound as dark and muddy as my Orange did with my 6505+
Yeah must be a huge difference considering it's loaded with the same Celestion V30's and the same Baltic Birch construction that Orange uses.

Maybe teh tonez are in hidden in the MESA badge. Or maybe black tolex sounds better than orange?

Les Paul Lover
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Re: Traded my CB 2x12 for an OB 2x12

Post by Les Paul Lover » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:35 pm

Gray wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:06 am
Dexter211275 wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:59 am
Ended up getting a Mesa Rectifier 2x12 which has plenty of low end and punch but doesn't sound as dark and muddy as my Orange did with my 6505+
Yeah must be a huge difference considering it's loaded with the same Celestion V30's and the same Baltic Birch construction that Orange uses.

Maybe teh tonez are in hidden in the MESA badge. Or maybe black tolex sounds better than orange?

It's well know Orange cabs only work well with small EL84 Lunch box amps.

Good thing there are dozens of them on the market.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, Tiny Terror

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

Dexter211275
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Re: Traded my CB 2x12 for an OB 2x12

Post by Dexter211275 » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:24 pm

Gray wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:06 am

Yeah must be a huge difference considering it's loaded with the same Celestion V30's and the same Baltic Birch construction that Orange uses.

Maybe teh tonez are in hidden in the MESA badge. Or maybe black tolex sounds better than orange?
You might want to do some research there buddy. The V30s in the Mesa are voiced quite differently than the V30s in the Orange, not to mention that the difference in the physical dimensions between the two cabs also effects the sound. Thats probably why they sound different here eh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipgWskM0f0I

Gray
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Re: Traded my CB 2x12 for an OB 2x12

Post by Gray » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:29 pm

Dexter211275 wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:24 pm
You might want to do some research there buddy. The V30s in the Mesa are voiced quite differently than the V30s in the Orange, not to mention that the difference in the physical dimensions between the two cabs also effects the sound.
Unless you bought the compact Rec the standard Mesa 2x12 and the Orange 2x12 are the exact same weight, width, and depth, with the only difference being the Mesa cab is 3inches shorter. Is that where the secret tonez are???

Mesa's v30's are actually darker than OEM and so are Orange's*, so it's funny you'd say it's brighter. They're both v30's and very similar.

*Edited for a mistake here on my part, was thinking of their VOTW speaker.
Last edited by Gray on Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Dexter211275
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Re: Traded my CB 2x12 for an OB 2x12

Post by Dexter211275 » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:33 pm

Gray wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:29 pm
Unless you bought the compact Rec the standard Mesa 2x12 and the Orange 2x12 are the exact same weight, width, and depth, with the only difference being the Mesa cab is 3inches shorter. Is that where the secret tonez are???

Mesa's v30's are actually darker than OEM and so are Orange's, so it's funny you'd say it's brighter. They're both v30's and very similar.
No they arent. The Orange is 3 inches taller and an inch deeper. That alone will make a difference in the sound. They are also sealed differently and Orange uses different bracing inside. Watch the video I put in my last post. If you can't hear a difference, you need your ears checked.

Gray
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Re: Traded my CB 2x12 for an OB 2x12

Post by Gray » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:42 pm

Dexter211275 wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:33 pm
No they arent. The Orange is 3 inches taller and an inch deeper. That alone will make a difference in the sound. They are also sealed differently and Orange uses different bracing inside. Watch the video I put in my last post. If you can't hear a difference, you need your ears checked.
Hey if you think those 3 inches make the Mesa "less dark and muddy" who am I to argue. I'm skeptical about that video and the choice to put a backing track in a tone comparison. I've used both, and (in person) thought they were almost identical.

That's just my opinion though, and considering you went from loving the 2x12 CB, to preaching the benefits of the 2x12 OB (in this thread) and then back to another CB that's similar to what you started with, I think it's pretty clear that opinions can be subjective.

Dexter211275
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Re: Traded my CB 2x12 for an OB 2x12

Post by Dexter211275 » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:13 pm

Gray wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:42 pm

Hey if you think those 3 inches make the Mesa "less dark and muddy" who am I to argue. I'm skeptical about that video and the choice to put a backing track in a tone comparison. I've used both, and (in person) thought they were almost identical.

That's just my opinion though, and considering you went from loving the 2x12 CB, to preaching the benefits of the 2x12 OB (in this thread) and then back to another CB that's similar to what you started with, I think it's pretty clear that opinions can be subjective.
They are not identical sounding at all. You are aware Mesa uses the UK made V30s and Orange uses the Chinese made V30s right? Two differently voiced speakers. Then you have the different cab dimensions, difference in bracing and sealing. You also have impedance, an 8ohm cab vs a 16ohm cab....

Gray
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Re: Traded my CB 2x12 for an OB 2x12

Post by Gray » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:21 pm

Dexter211275 wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:13 pm
They are not identical sounding at all. You are aware Mesa uses the UK made V30s and Orange uses the Chinese made V30s right? Then you have the different cab dimensions, difference in bracing and sealing. You also have impedance, an 8ohm cab vs a 16ohm cab....
All OEM Celesion V30's are "assembled in China", it's only Mesa who has a "special" version made for them in England. There are numerous videos and forum topics out there on the web comparing them and they all have different conclusions ranging from the Mesa's sounding worse, to better, to no different at all. From what I recall, they also have a slightly different load.

Again, if you want to believe that these things add up to a cab that's less "dark and muddy" then go right ahead. We aren't the first and won't be the last people to have this debate.

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