How powerful an amp can the Orange 2x12 CB take?

Orange Amps General Forum

Moderator: bclaire

Post Reply
Dexter211275
Tiny Terror
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:19 am

How powerful an amp can the Orange 2x12 CB take?

Post by Dexter211275 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:38 am

I know in theory the watts on the cab are supposed to be double the watts of the amp. However, Ive seen plenty of guys playing 100 watt amps thru Orange and Mesa 2x12s and Ive played my JCM 2000 100 watt thru it quite a few times with no issues. Thinking about a Peavey 6505 Plus which is 120 watts, exactly what my 2x12 is rated at. Bad idea? I wont be turning it up past 3-4 but even at that volume, Im sure its putting out at least 100 watts.

Rlw59
Rocker
Posts: 242
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:31 pm
Location: DFW, Texas, USA

Re: How powerful an amp can the Orange 2x12 CB take?

Post by Rlw59 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:18 am

Power handling ratings are a nebulous thing. There's no standard method of rating. And there are a lot of variables -- it isn't really just watts. Clean watts are easier on speakers than dirty watts. Single pitch pure sine waves are easier than waves with lots of harmonics, and chords are even harder. And the cab affects the speaker's power handling -- closed back will handle more power than open.

Some speaker manufacturers use the tests that give the highest ratings, so they can publish a really high power rating. Other manufacturers are more rigorous and honest and give real-world ratings.

Another factor is that tube amp outputs are measured for clean watts. Cranked all the way up where the power tubes are distorting, most tube amps put out many more watts than their rating. Most 100 watt tube amps actually top out closer to 170 watts.

That's where "double the power" came from. Unless you know how the speaker was rated it's safer to assume the rating is exaggerated. And then factor in that your amp can put out a lot more power than its rating.
-------------------------
But Celestion knows guitar amps and how guitarists use them. They built the very first dedicated guitar speaker and have always been a premier manufacturer. They're more concerned with protecting their reputation rather than publishing high power ratings.

So when Celestion rates a speaker as "60 watts", they mean it can handle any cranked 60 watt tube amp. Most other companies would call that a "90 watt" or "100 watt" speaker.

Two V30's can handle any 120 watt tube amp on the planet.

A "15 watt" Alnico Blue can handle any 15 watt tube amp. Fender even did a run of Blue-loaded 22 watt Deluxe Reverbs -- with warranty coverage, knowing that some people would dime their new amp as soon as they took it out of the box.

Look at EVH Amps. All of their cabs are loaded with 20 watt EVH Celestions. But they call the 2x12 a 50 watt cab and sell it as the matching cab for the 50 watt head. And they call the 4x12 a 100 watt cab and sell it as the matching cab for the 100 watt head.
---------------------
Even a speaker with double the power rating compared to the amp's output can fail. So no 100% guarantee, but your Orange 212 CB should be fine with a 120 watt Peavey. Especially if you don't dime everything.
Last edited by Rlw59 on Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

Rlw59
Rocker
Posts: 242
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:31 pm
Location: DFW, Texas, USA

Re: How powerful an amp can the Orange 2x12 CB take?

Post by Rlw59 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:31 am

Re: 20 watt EVH Celestions.

General consensus is that they're really 25 watt speakers, and the 20 watt rating is just a nostalgic nod to Edward's favorite old 20 watt Greenbacks.

Still, no "double the power" there. They don't say you have to use a 412 with the 50 watt head, or a full stack with the 100 watt head.

Mystic38
Orange Expert
Posts: 521
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:04 am
Location: Mystic, CT

Re: How powerful an amp can the Orange 2x12 CB take?

Post by Mystic38 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:02 pm

That may be a theory among guitarists, but it certainly has very limited to no basis in any form of science.
Dexter211275 wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:38 am
I know in theory the watts on the cab are supposed to be double the watts of the amp.
Damage to speakers comes from one of two things.

a) excess cone excursion :
Think of the movie back to the future.. one power chord and the speaker explodes you into the next room.. A large transients that pushes the the cone past Xmax (linear excursion limit) will cause the speaker to audibly flubb, and at worst case, can damage the cone suspension. Having an amp that can do this to your speaker CAN cause damage, but you would also have to be deaf or oblivious, as it is audibly OBVIOUS that you have an issue.

c) true power handling :
A speaker voice coil can be heated, distort and physically restrict movement of the cone. At this point damage is done, but in extreme, the voice coil can melt open circuit, or partially short out. This requires average (not max) continuous (sustained) power to be going through the speaker that exceeds its rated handling and has limited correlation to the power rating of your amp.

There is nothing wrong with a mental approach that says use an amp:speaker power rating of 2:1 ..it means you can forget about it.. and thats why people recommend it.

but there most certainly is nothing wrong with using a 1:1 ratio, or even a 1:2 setup..it simply means you need to think about your setup and its settings.
Dexter211275 wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:38 am
However, Ive seen plenty of guys playing 100 watt amps thru Orange and Mesa 2x12s and Ive played my JCM 2000 100 watt thru it quite a few times with no issues. Thinking about a Peavey 6505 Plus which is 120 watts, exactly what my 2x12 is rated at. Bad idea? I wont be turning it up past 3-4 but even at that volume, Im sure its putting out at least 100 watts.
-Ian-

Orange Rocker 30c, PPC212 & PPC112, Fender DRRI, Marshall 2266
2012 Gibson LP Standard, 2001 Gibson LP DC Standard
2009 Fender Am. Standard Strat, 1999 Fender Am. Hardtail Strat
2014 G&L Fallout

***insert great photos of gear here***

Jondog
Duke of Orange
Posts: 7190
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:16 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: How powerful an amp can the Orange 2x12 CB take?

Post by Jondog » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:07 pm

I always heard cab should be at least 10% higher wattage than the amp. All speakers are designed different, labeled different. I think a lot of it is for warranty reasons. A Celestion Alnico Blue is a 15 watt speaker, but it’s known they can handle more than that. Theres 2 in an AC30 with no problem, and those amps work a speaker pretty good.
Image

Dexter211275
Tiny Terror
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:19 am

Re: How powerful an amp can the Orange 2x12 CB take?

Post by Dexter211275 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:24 pm

Thanks for the replies everyone! Sounds like I should be ok.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 123 guests