Orange with the biggest low end punch?

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Dexter211275
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Orange with the biggest low end punch?

Post by Dexter211275 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:45 am

So Ive been plenty happy with my Rocker 30 I picked up a few weeks ago but I took it to rehearsal again last night and we had a new drummer. This guy hits way harder than our previous drummer which I like but I had to turn my R30 up considerably. I had been running it around 10 o'clock and loved the tone. Last night, I had it almost to noon and I lost quite a bit of bottom end. It just sounded really thin, even when I tried to dial it in differently and I had my bass knob maxed out. I guess I could have tried going to the middle position on my SG rather than staying on the bridge pickup to try and thicken it up but I didn't think about it. I just set it aside after a few songs and went to my JCM 2000. So Im guessing Im on a collision course with the RV 100 if I want more low end punch at higher volumes? Not a big fan of the modern sound. Which vintage Oranges have a nice thick low end punch?

Les Paul Lover
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Re: Orange with the biggest low end punch?

Post by Les Paul Lover » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:23 am

If you like your DSL, a very much modern sounding amp, you might like another type of modern sounding amp.

Otherwise, track down an OR100. Sounds similar to the Rocker 30.

To be honest, I'm surprised you say the R30 "thinned" out with the master volume up at noon.
There is an increase in highs as you open up the master (most noticeable in the lower range of the master volume) but not a reduction in low end.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5


Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

Gray
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Re: Orange with the biggest low end punch?

Post by Gray » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:21 pm

^ Agreed. The 2000 is basically a modern sounding version of the classic 800. Reverb, Channel Switching, it's the Rockververb of the Marshall line.

Jondog
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Re: Orange with the biggest low end punch?

Post by Jondog » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:45 pm

Thunderverb 50
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Dexter211275
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Re: Orange with the biggest low end punch?

Post by Dexter211275 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:00 pm

Les Paul Lover wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:23 am
If you like your DSL, a very much modern sounding amp, you might like another type of modern sounding amp.

Otherwise, track down an OR100. Sounds similar to the Rocker 30.

To be honest, I'm surprised you say the R30 "thinned" out with the master volume up at noon.
There is an increase in highs as you open up the master (most noticeable in the lower range of the master volume) but not a reduction in low end.
Yea, it just got thin and the highs spiked way up. I backed the high down from noon to 10 o'clock and it didn't help much and I definitely lost that nice little chug sound when palm muting I got at lower volumes. I put it up on Craigslist and had a guy offer to trade me his RV50 MKI for my R30 and $100. Meeting up with him this afternoon. Not a big fan of 6V6s but I want to try it out at least and consider it. Maybe I just need to go with a RV after all. What kind of transformers do the RV50s use and are they larger than whats in the R30s? I would love to get a hold of an OR100, never see them though.

Les Paul Lover
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Re: Orange with the biggest low end punch?

Post by Les Paul Lover » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:37 pm

I've just turned my RV50 MKI and my R30 to have a look inside. The power transformer look about the same..... which isn't very helpful!!! It doesn't mean they are the same.

I can certainly say.....

- my R30 doesn't get thin as I turn up the master.
- my RV50 MKI has more low end. Does it have more punch? Not sure. Probably same same but different.

The R30 is rawer, very fuzzy, and plain more aggressive.
The RV50 gets very compressed on the dirty channel as you turn up the gain. Its also very smooth and warm.

Volume wise, there isn't much difference between the R30 and RV50 - as one would expect. But then..... in my house, either is enough to rattle the windows and floor boards.


I've seen a local metal band once use both the RV50 MKI and a peavey 6505.

The peavey was more noticeable, probably because of the extra treble. But every time the player with the RV50 stopped playing, the 6505 sounded thin. All that made the band sound thick and big was down to the RV50.

They both used a LOT of gain.
Some people have said they felt their RV50 got lost in the mix. I've never experienced that myself, but witnessed it with that band to a degree - but would disagree. Whilst on that occasion, the RV50 didn't stand out all that much, what stood out was how much it was missing when the RV50 player had quiet parts.

It's all about what the band sounds like, not necessarily about what you dream to sounds like. That was a few years back, quite eye opening for me.



Also...... when did you last change your valves on your R30?
Losing punch at high volume isn't what mine does.
It gets more treble, but that sorts of reach a plateau after a while.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5


Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

Dexter211275
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Re: Orange with the biggest low end punch?

Post by Dexter211275 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:09 am

Les Paul Lover wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:37 pm
I've just turned my RV50 MKI and my R30 to have a look inside. The power transformer look about the same..... which isn't very helpful!!! It doesn't mean they are the same.

I can certainly say.....

- my R30 doesn't get thin as I turn up the master.
- my RV50 MKI has more low end. Does it have more punch? Not sure. Probably same same but different.

The R30 is rawer, very fuzzy, and plain more aggressive.
The RV50 gets very compressed on the dirty channel as you turn up the gain. Its also very smooth and warm.

Volume wise, there isn't much difference between the R30 and RV50 - as one would expect. But then..... in my house, either is enough to rattle the windows and floor boards.


I've seen a local metal band once use both the RV50 MKI and a peavey 6505.

The peavey was more noticeable, probably because of the extra treble. But every time the player with the RV50 stopped playing, the 6505 sounded thin. All that made the band sound thick and big was down to the RV50.

They both used a LOT of gain.
Some people have said they felt their RV50 got lost in the mix. I've never experienced that myself, but witnessed it with that band to a degree - but would disagree. Whilst on that occasion, the RV50 didn't stand out all that much, what stood out was how much it was missing when the RV50 player had quiet parts.

It's all about what the band sounds like, not necessarily about what you dream to sounds like. That was a few years back, quite eye opening for me.



Also...... when did you last change your valves on your R30?
Losing punch at high volume isn't what mine does.
It gets more treble, but that sorts of reach a plateau after a while.
Thanks for the info! I definitely like having smoother and warmer distortion and I will like having that extra gain stage on the 50. Funny you mention the 6505, thats the next amp on my radar to get. I love how it stays thick and beefy sounding when playing drop tuned power chords, thats all I play. As for tubes, I just got the R30 from a pawn shop a few weeks. Im just using the 6CA7s that were in it which could be the stock tubes for all I know.

Jondog
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Re: Orange with the biggest low end punch?

Post by Jondog » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:57 am

R30 and RV50 have the same PT, different OT.
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Mystic38
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Re: Orange with the biggest low end punch?

Post by Mystic38 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:32 pm

isnt the answer this..?
Jondog wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:45 pm
Thunderverb 50
as iirc there were discussions about this being used/useful as a bass amp due to the low end


but back on the r30, and amps in general, the volume knob is more than just volume.. as you drive your output harder (turn the volume up) then power tube saturation and distortion will start.. the R30 shows this best when you crank the natural channel.. pure el34 fuzz and not a hint of preamp distortion.. but anyway, given the power amp is distorting, that will increase the high frequency content as distortion in tube amps is 2nd harmonic distortion, so the tonal balance will NEVER be the same once the power stages are really cooking...but that is also what helps a guitar cut through the mix.

in all honesty, you really dont want too much low end, you will be stepping on the bass player that way.
-Ian-

Orange Rocker 30c, PPC212 & PPC112, Fender DRRI, Marshall 2266
2012 Gibson LP Standard, 2001 Gibson LP DC Standard
2009 Fender Am. Standard Strat, 1999 Fender Am. Hardtail Strat
2014 G&L Fallout

***insert great photos of gear here***

fiveightandten
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Re: Orange with the biggest low end punch?

Post by fiveightandten » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:58 pm

Dexter211275 wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:45 am
Which vintage Oranges have a nice thick low end punch?
The OR-120 has stupid amounts of low end on tap. With the FAC knob to the left, you can use it as a bass amp if you wanted to.

That being said, how old are the tubes in your Rocker 30? I would try a new set of EL34s before buying a new amp. Also, 12:00 on the volume knob is nothing. Turn the gain all the way down...turn the master volume all the way up. Then turn the gain up until you have the desired level of overdrive. The amp will never sound as good as it does running like that. If it's too loud, back off the master volume and only add what gain you need to compensate.

In general, the more gain you use the looser the sound. The more bass you use, the looser the sound. Punchy tones are low gain and light on low end.
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'71 GRO100 || '96 OR-80 || AD30 || '64 AC-50 || AC-30TBX || Hiwatt DR504 || HI-TONE HT30
LP Standard || LP Studio || LP Custom Lite || Ric 620 || Ric 360 || MIA Tele || SG 61 RI

Dexter211275
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Re: Orange with the biggest low end punch?

Post by Dexter211275 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:15 pm

fiveightandten wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:58 pm

The OR-120 has stupid amounts of low end on tap. With the FAC knob to the left, you can use it as a bass amp if you wanted to.

That being said, how old are the tubes in your Rocker 30? I would try a new set of EL34s before buying a new amp. Also, 12:00 on the volume knob is nothing. Turn the gain all the way down...turn the master volume all the way up. Then turn the gain up until you have the desired level of overdrive. The amp will never sound as good as it does running like that. If it's too loud, back off the master volume and only add what gain you need to compensate.

In general, the more gain you use the looser the sound. The more bass you use, the looser the sound. Punchy tones are low gain and light on low end.
Thanks but I traded my R30 for a RV50 MKI. I have seen a demo with a guy who had a TH30 (i think) with the MV all the way up and he was using the gain to control things and it sounded awesome. Doesn't cranking the MV really put some wear on the power tubes though? I dont want to be re-tubing my amp twice a year.

Gray
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Re: Orange with the biggest low end punch?

Post by Gray » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:27 pm

Dexter211275 wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:15 pm
I have seen a demo with a guy who had a TH30 (i think) with the MV all the way up and he was using the gain to control things and it sounded awesome. Doesn't cranking the MV really put some wear on the power tubes though? I dont want to be re-tubing my amp twice a year.
Turning the MV all the way up essentially removes it from the circuit, at which point it functions similar to how most old high power amps did, which is to say, loud and almost unusable at normal volumes because they had to be cranked to sound good and there was no master volume to knock it down. For example, the old OR series that you've talked about in the past had no MV control. They also cooked tubes like a frying pan.

Les Paul Lover
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Re: Orange with the biggest low end punch?

Post by Les Paul Lover » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:34 pm

Sure, cranking it full pelt puts a little more wear on the valves, but they are consumables. If you wear them off 25% faster, it's not a big deal.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5


Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

Hubaxe
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Re: Orange with the biggest low end punch?

Post by Hubaxe » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:15 am

I'm surprised no one mentioned cabs and speakers?
No big bass without Big 4X12, whatever the head :lol:
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Dexter211275
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Re: Orange with the biggest low end punch?

Post by Dexter211275 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:22 pm

Hubaxe wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:15 am
I'm surprised no one mentioned cabs and speakers?
No big bass without Big 4X12, whatever the head :lol:
Hmmm, my Orange 2x12 with V30s has quite a bit of bottom end...

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