Rocker 30C help please
Moderator: bclaire
Rocker 30C help please
I'm asking this in the Community section,because I think(hope) it may get more views than the Tech section,hence a better chance of someone helping out.
I need a tech or Orange user(who's used to or has a Rocker 30)I need to compare my 30C to one that's a known quantity,I'm based in the North West(between Liverpool & Manchester),does anyone on the forum own an R30 i can compare mine with,or can anyone point me too a tech who's familiar with Orange(preferably the Rocker),i'm convinced my amp isn't right,it works,but I don't think it sounds right .
Thanks,Graham.
I need a tech or Orange user(who's used to or has a Rocker 30)I need to compare my 30C to one that's a known quantity,I'm based in the North West(between Liverpool & Manchester),does anyone on the forum own an R30 i can compare mine with,or can anyone point me too a tech who's familiar with Orange(preferably the Rocker),i'm convinced my amp isn't right,it works,but I don't think it sounds right .
Thanks,Graham.
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- Orange Master
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Re: Rocker 30C help please
Hi can you describe what the issue is?
But faulty tubes are frequently the most likely culprit.
But faulty tubes are frequently the most likely culprit.
Re: Rocker 30C help please
Thanks for replying,it sounds,really trebly,thin,no guts,scratchy,just crap,this is in comparison to my JRT.
Cheers,Graham.
Cheers,Graham.
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- Duke of Orange
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Re: Rocker 30C help please
Was it always like that, or has it deteriorated recently?
Have you changed the valves?
I have a R30 head, and am based in Derby. Probably 2h drive from you? If you happen to be nearby at some point, you should be welcome to pop over and compare yours to mine.
As Ronnie stated, the power valves are most likely pretty dead, though it could be a preamp valve too. That's the 1st thing to trouble shoot.
This amp is cathode biased too, so you can drop in any matched pair of EL34 without needing to bring it to a tech.
Have you changed the valves?
I have a R30 head, and am based in Derby. Probably 2h drive from you? If you happen to be nearby at some point, you should be welcome to pop over and compare yours to mine.
As Ronnie stated, the power valves are most likely pretty dead, though it could be a preamp valve too. That's the 1st thing to trouble shoot.
This amp is cathode biased too, so you can drop in any matched pair of EL34 without needing to bring it to a tech.
Last edited by Les Paul Lover on Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ant
Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5
Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute
Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5
Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute
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- Orange Master
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Re: Rocker 30C help please
Ok so if that's your description of the dirty channel there clearly is a problem ....because this channel with humbuckers can be a beast and very loud.
Is this channel really loud or is there significant loss of volume?
When we're the valves last changed?
I once had a transformer blow in a rocker 30 but that reduced the sound to the volume of about 5% and was very thin and tinny, I don't think we're taking about that.
Is this channel really loud or is there significant loss of volume?
When we're the valves last changed?
I once had a transformer blow in a rocker 30 but that reduced the sound to the volume of about 5% and was very thin and tinny, I don't think we're taking about that.
Re: Rocker 30C help please
THE amps sounded like this pretty much since I bought it used(I have posted about it before)it was 1 owner & the guy said it had been re-valved with JJ valves & hardly used since,thanks for the offer of comparing the Amp to yours,i may invest in a set of valves,is it ok if I get back you on that?.Les Paul Lover wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:06 pmWas it always like that, or has it deteriorated recently?
Have you changed the valves?
I have a R30 head, and am based in Derby. Probably 2h drive from you? If you happen to be nearby at some point, you should be welcome to pop over and compare yours to mine.
As Ronnie stated, the power valves are most likely pretty dead, though it could be a preamp valve too. That's the 1st thing to trouble shoot.
This amp is cathode biased too, so you can drop in any matched pair of EL34 with need to bring it to a tech.
Just remembered that the indicator bulb goes dim(or out),by the end of a normal pub gig,i haven't used it since I bought the JRT,so I forgot about the bulb.
.
No apparent loss of volume,just sounds as described.Ronnie Robinson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:59 amOk so if that's your description of the dirty channel there clearly is a problem ....because this channel with humbuckers can be a beast and very loud.
Is this channel really loud or is there significant loss of volume?
When we're the valves last changed?
I once had a transformer blow in a rocker 30 but that reduced the sound to the volume of about 5% and was very thin and tinny, I don't think we're taking about that.
Once again I appreciate the help.
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- Orange Master
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Re: Rocker 30C help please
Ok if it was me I'd be buying a new set of tubes starting with pre amp tubes , you could do a visual inspection of the tubes before hand to assess the general state of them.
I'd owned a couple of Rockers both have had the Orange indicator bulb be bright initially then go very dim and appear almost out yet still sound excellent, in fact last week I've just put a new set of tubes in my R30c harma and Ehxs and this did not make any difference regarding the bulb diming so I think this is normal and not an issue.
I'd owned a couple of Rockers both have had the Orange indicator bulb be bright initially then go very dim and appear almost out yet still sound excellent, in fact last week I've just put a new set of tubes in my R30c harma and Ehxs and this did not make any difference regarding the bulb diming so I think this is normal and not an issue.
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- Duke of Orange
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Re: Rocker 30C help please
Sure - if you're ever in the area, we can sort that out.Gordy G wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:01 amTHE amps sounded like this pretty much since I bought it used(I have posted about it before)it was 1 owner & the guy said it had been re-valved with JJ valves & hardly used since,thanks for the offer of comparing the Amp to yours,i may invest in a set of valves,is it ok if I get back you on that?.Les Paul Lover wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:06 pmWas it always like that, or has it deteriorated recently?
Have you changed the valves?
I have a R30 head, and am based in Derby. Probably 2h drive from you? If you happen to be nearby at some point, you should be welcome to pop over and compare yours to mine.
As Ronnie stated, the power valves are most likely pretty dead, though it could be a preamp valve too. That's the 1st thing to trouble shoot.
This amp is cathode biased too, so you can drop in any matched pair of EL34 with need to bring it to a tech.
Just remembered that the indicator bulb goes dim(or out),by the end of a normal pub gig,i haven't used it since I bought the JRT,so I forgot about the bulb.
.No apparent loss of volume,just sounds as described.Ronnie Robinson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:59 amOk so if that's your description of the dirty channel there clearly is a problem ....because this channel with humbuckers can be a beast and very loud.
Is this channel really loud or is there significant loss of volume?
When we're the valves last changed?
I once had a transformer blow in a rocker 30 but that reduced the sound to the volume of about 5% and was very thin and tinny, I don't think we're taking about that.
Once again I appreciate the help.
New valves aren't a guarantee they will work fine.
What worries me is that I wonder if the previous owner might have changed the valves in the hope of solving the issue that's still there. We'll just never know..... unless a valve swap sorts your issue out!!!!
Ant
Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5
Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute
Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5
Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute
Re: Rocker 30C help please
Ok,thanks.When you say a visual inspection,is then when the Amp is on?,i suppose i'm looking for even glow across all tubes ?
This might be another dumb statement,but i'm not sure I've ever noticed the pre-amp tubes,i can see the EL34 glowing away(edit,it would be tricky with metal covers ),but not the AX7's(edit ECC83),is this normal?.
I'm going to go & drag the Amp in out of the Van & have a look at it,(now have the chassis out) .
Edited the pre-amp valves are ECC83,should it be normal for the centre 83 to be noticeably dimmer than the other 2?
I'm now getting a bit concerned having noticed the amount of screw driver rash on the Chassis/Panel screws & should the back panel screws be right through the rear surface of the baton,by about 3/8"(i'm old).
I think I'm definitely getting into tech section territory
This might be another dumb statement,but i'm not sure I've ever noticed the pre-amp tubes,i can see the EL34 glowing away(edit,it would be tricky with metal covers ),but not the AX7's(edit ECC83),is this normal?.
I'm going to go & drag the Amp in out of the Van & have a look at it,(now have the chassis out) .
Edited the pre-amp valves are ECC83,should it be normal for the centre 83 to be noticeably dimmer than the other 2?
I'm now getting a bit concerned having noticed the amount of screw driver rash on the Chassis/Panel screws & should the back panel screws be right through the rear surface of the baton,by about 3/8"(i'm old).
I think I'm definitely getting into tech section territory
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- Orange Expert
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Re: Rocker 30C help please
A Rocker 30 that sounds thin and tinny is definitely a sick rocker. I use the head and even through a PPC112 loaded with the standard Vintage30 driver it sounds pretty loud and dark, never thin and tinny.
I would order up a full set of new tubes as a starter, thus eliminating that as the problem. If it stays thin and tinny then yes, get it to a tech (new tubes never hurt anyway) but I agree with the diagnosis that it is probably tubes. As for the minced up screws, well could be someone messing where they shoudn't be but could also be someone just changing tubes with a crap screwdriver...
Hope you get it sorted. Its a superb amp if you are into an uncompressed sound!
I would order up a full set of new tubes as a starter, thus eliminating that as the problem. If it stays thin and tinny then yes, get it to a tech (new tubes never hurt anyway) but I agree with the diagnosis that it is probably tubes. As for the minced up screws, well could be someone messing where they shoudn't be but could also be someone just changing tubes with a crap screwdriver...
Hope you get it sorted. Its a superb amp if you are into an uncompressed sound!
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- Duke of Orange
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Re: Rocker 30C help please
Gordy G wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:00 pmOk,thanks.When you say a visual inspection,is then when the Amp is on?,i suppose i'm looking for even glow across all tubes ?
This might be another dumb statement,but i'm not sure I've ever noticed the pre-amp tubes,i can see the EL34 glowing away(edit,it would be tricky with metal covers ),but not the AX7's(edit ECC83),is this normal?.
I'm going to go & drag the Amp in out of the Van & have a look at it,(now have the chassis out) .
Edited the pre-amp valves are ECC83,should it be normal for the centre 83 to be noticeably dimmer than the other 2?
I'm now getting a bit concerned having noticed the amount of screw driver rash on the Chassis/Panel screws & should the back panel screws be right through the rear surface of the baton,by about 3/8"(i'm old).
I think I'm definitely getting into tech section territory
To be honest, screw driver rash only indicates that the valves have been changed a number of times.
It's possible that the owner even refitted dodgy valves prior to the sale. Valves aren't particularly cheap.
Valve glow isn't always regular, and preamp valves are dimmer than power valves. One preamp valve noticeably dimmer isn't a concern in a working amp.
If you do some valve swapping, you can try that one 1st. Try and replace the preamp valves one at a time and see what difference it makes, good or bad. If there is no change, you may as well replace the old one in and try that new preamp valve in another slot. If you do it one at a time, you should find the faulty valve if there's one.
Change the power valves as a pair though.
Ant
Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5
Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute
Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5
Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute
Re: Rocker 30C help please
What does it sound like on the 'Natural' channel? If this channel sounds ok then the power amp section is going to be ok and the problem is solely within the dirty channel preamp section.
Re: Rocker 30C help please
Thanks to everyone who's helped me out,i'll try & answer as briefly as possible(I tend to turn things into a book).
The natural channel also sounds "thin".
The screwdriver rash is on the big screws holding the Chassis to the back panel
The screws holding on the back panel where "mutilated",incredibly tight & seemed to me to be 1/2" too long,i'll have to replace them.
The main problem I have is I've never heard another R30(I've not even seen another one),so it's just my opinion & comparing it to the JRT & my old Cube 12" speaker.
The valves fitted are not JJ(must have been a figment of my or the previous owners imagination)they are unbranded ECC83 & EH EL34's,which I think look quite old,all the writing that's left is faded & smudged & some discolouration of the glass.
So I took my life in my hands & fitted the pre-amp valves from my JRT(which are JJ ECC83S) & it sounded more like I expect/want from it.
So unless there is a resounding "NO" ,i'm going to order a set of JJ's including the 83S pre amp tubes,which I want to do Today,so quick with the "NO's"
Many thanks for all the replies.
ps,any suggestions for a decent supplier,thanks.
The natural channel also sounds "thin".
The screwdriver rash is on the big screws holding the Chassis to the back panel
The screws holding on the back panel where "mutilated",incredibly tight & seemed to me to be 1/2" too long,i'll have to replace them.
The main problem I have is I've never heard another R30(I've not even seen another one),so it's just my opinion & comparing it to the JRT & my old Cube 12" speaker.
The valves fitted are not JJ(must have been a figment of my or the previous owners imagination)they are unbranded ECC83 & EH EL34's,which I think look quite old,all the writing that's left is faded & smudged & some discolouration of the glass.
So I took my life in my hands & fitted the pre-amp valves from my JRT(which are JJ ECC83S) & it sounded more like I expect/want from it.
So unless there is a resounding "NO" ,i'm going to order a set of JJ's including the 83S pre amp tubes,which I want to do Today,so quick with the "NO's"
Many thanks for all the replies.
ps,any suggestions for a decent supplier,thanks.
Re: Rocker 30C help please
I’d re-valve the amp, pre-amp and power amp.
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Re: Rocker 30C help please
Fender USA Standard Stratocaster
Gordon Smith Galaxy
Gibson Les Paul Classic
Faith Jupiter Jumbo Acoustic
Orange Rocker 30 HD
Orange Micro Terror
Orange PPC 212 OB
Lead
Plectrum
Attitude
Sorted!
Gordon Smith Galaxy
Gibson Les Paul Classic
Faith Jupiter Jumbo Acoustic
Orange Rocker 30 HD
Orange Micro Terror
Orange PPC 212 OB
Lead
Plectrum
Attitude
Sorted!
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