Rocker 30C help please

Orange Amps General Forum

Moderator: bclaire

Gordy G
Tiny Terror
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:53 pm
Location: Warrington,NW England

Rocker 30C help please

Post by Gordy G » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:33 pm

I'm asking this in the Community section,because I think(hope) it may get more views than the Tech section,hence a better chance of someone helping out.
I need a tech or Orange user(who's used to or has a Rocker 30)I need to compare my 30C to one that's a known quantity,I'm based in the North West(between Liverpool & Manchester),does anyone on the forum own an R30 i can compare mine with,or can anyone point me too a tech who's familiar with Orange(preferably the Rocker),i'm convinced my amp isn't right,it works,but I don't think it sounds right :( .
Thanks,Graham.

Ronnie Robinson
Orange Master
Posts: 3148
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 3:39 am
Location: In the beautyful North , UK
Contact:

Re: Rocker 30C help please

Post by Ronnie Robinson » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:55 pm

Hi can you describe what the issue is?


But faulty tubes are frequently the most likely culprit.
Orange AD30 HTC
Orange Rocker 15 terror
Orange Tiny Terror HW,
Fender elite Start, Gibson SG 61,fender telecaster

Previously Owned - Rocker 30
Image

Gordy G
Tiny Terror
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:53 pm
Location: Warrington,NW England

Re: Rocker 30C help please

Post by Gordy G » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:15 pm

Thanks for replying,it sounds,really trebly,thin,no guts,scratchy,just crap,this is in comparison to my JRT.
Cheers,Graham.

Les Paul Lover
Duke of Orange
Posts: 6821
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Derby, England

Re: Rocker 30C help please

Post by Les Paul Lover » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:06 pm

Was it always like that, or has it deteriorated recently?

Have you changed the valves?

I have a R30 head, and am based in Derby. Probably 2h drive from you? If you happen to be nearby at some point, you should be welcome to pop over and compare yours to mine.

As Ronnie stated, the power valves are most likely pretty dead, though it could be a preamp valve too. That's the 1st thing to trouble shoot.

This amp is cathode biased too, so you can drop in any matched pair of EL34 without needing to bring it to a tech.
Last edited by Les Paul Lover on Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5


Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

Ronnie Robinson
Orange Master
Posts: 3148
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 3:39 am
Location: In the beautyful North , UK
Contact:

Re: Rocker 30C help please

Post by Ronnie Robinson » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:59 am

Ok so if that's your description of the dirty channel there clearly is a problem ....because this channel with humbuckers can be a beast and very loud.

Is this channel really loud or is there significant loss of volume?

When we're the valves last changed?

I once had a transformer blow in a rocker 30 but that reduced the sound to the volume of about 5% and was very thin and tinny, I don't think we're taking about that.
Orange AD30 HTC
Orange Rocker 15 terror
Orange Tiny Terror HW,
Fender elite Start, Gibson SG 61,fender telecaster

Previously Owned - Rocker 30
Image

Gordy G
Tiny Terror
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:53 pm
Location: Warrington,NW England

Re: Rocker 30C help please

Post by Gordy G » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:01 am

Les Paul Lover wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:06 pm
Was it always like that, or has it deteriorated recently?

Have you changed the valves?

I have a R30 head, and am based in Derby. Probably 2h drive from you? If you happen to be nearby at some point, you should be welcome to pop over and compare yours to mine.

As Ronnie stated, the power valves are most likely pretty dead, though it could be a preamp valve too. That's the 1st thing to trouble shoot.

This amp is cathode biased too, so you can drop in any matched pair of EL34 with need to bring it to a tech.
THE amps sounded like this pretty much since I bought it used(I have posted about it before)it was 1 owner & the guy said it had been re-valved with JJ valves & hardly used since,thanks for the offer of comparing the Amp to yours,i may invest in a set of valves,is it ok if I get back you on that?.

Just remembered that the indicator bulb goes dim(or out),by the end of a normal pub gig,i haven't used it since I bought the JRT,so I forgot about the bulb
.
.
Ronnie Robinson wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:59 am
Ok so if that's your description of the dirty channel there clearly is a problem ....because this channel with humbuckers can be a beast and very loud.

Is this channel really loud or is there significant loss of volume?

When we're the valves last changed?

I once had a transformer blow in a rocker 30 but that reduced the sound to the volume of about 5% and was very thin and tinny, I don't think we're taking about that.
No apparent loss of volume,just sounds as described.

Once again I appreciate the help. :)

Ronnie Robinson
Orange Master
Posts: 3148
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 3:39 am
Location: In the beautyful North , UK
Contact:

Re: Rocker 30C help please

Post by Ronnie Robinson » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:42 am

Ok if it was me I'd be buying a new set of tubes starting with pre amp tubes , you could do a visual inspection of the tubes before hand to assess the general state of them.

I'd owned a couple of Rockers both have had the Orange indicator bulb be bright initially then go very dim and appear almost out yet still sound excellent, in fact last week I've just put a new set of tubes in my R30c harma and Ehxs and this did not make any difference regarding the bulb diming so I think this is normal and not an issue.
Orange AD30 HTC
Orange Rocker 15 terror
Orange Tiny Terror HW,
Fender elite Start, Gibson SG 61,fender telecaster

Previously Owned - Rocker 30
Image

Les Paul Lover
Duke of Orange
Posts: 6821
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Derby, England

Re: Rocker 30C help please

Post by Les Paul Lover » Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:35 pm

Gordy G wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:01 am
Les Paul Lover wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:06 pm
Was it always like that, or has it deteriorated recently?

Have you changed the valves?

I have a R30 head, and am based in Derby. Probably 2h drive from you? If you happen to be nearby at some point, you should be welcome to pop over and compare yours to mine.

As Ronnie stated, the power valves are most likely pretty dead, though it could be a preamp valve too. That's the 1st thing to trouble shoot.

This amp is cathode biased too, so you can drop in any matched pair of EL34 with need to bring it to a tech.
THE amps sounded like this pretty much since I bought it used(I have posted about it before)it was 1 owner & the guy said it had been re-valved with JJ valves & hardly used since,thanks for the offer of comparing the Amp to yours,i may invest in a set of valves,is it ok if I get back you on that?.

Just remembered that the indicator bulb goes dim(or out),by the end of a normal pub gig,i haven't used it since I bought the JRT,so I forgot about the bulb
.
.
Ronnie Robinson wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:59 am
Ok so if that's your description of the dirty channel there clearly is a problem ....because this channel with humbuckers can be a beast and very loud.

Is this channel really loud or is there significant loss of volume?

When we're the valves last changed?

I once had a transformer blow in a rocker 30 but that reduced the sound to the volume of about 5% and was very thin and tinny, I don't think we're taking about that.
No apparent loss of volume,just sounds as described.

Once again I appreciate the help. :)
Sure - if you're ever in the area, we can sort that out.

New valves aren't a guarantee they will work fine.
What worries me is that I wonder if the previous owner might have changed the valves in the hope of solving the issue that's still there. We'll just never know..... unless a valve swap sorts your issue out!!!!
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5


Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

Gordy G
Tiny Terror
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:53 pm
Location: Warrington,NW England

Re: Rocker 30C help please

Post by Gordy G » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:00 pm

Ok,thanks.When you say a visual inspection,is then when the Amp is on?,i suppose i'm looking for even glow across all tubes ?
This might be another dumb statement,but i'm not sure I've ever noticed the pre-amp tubes,i can see the EL34 glowing away(edit,it would be tricky with metal covers :) ),but not the AX7's(edit ECC83),is this normal?.
I'm going to go & drag the Amp in out of the Van & have a look at it,(now have the chassis out) .

Edited the pre-amp valves are ECC83,should it be normal for the centre 83 to be noticeably dimmer than the other 2?
I'm now getting a bit concerned having noticed the amount of screw driver rash on the Chassis/Panel screws & should the back panel screws be right through the rear surface of the baton,by about 3/8"(i'm old).
I think I'm definitely getting into tech section territory

Jabberwocky
Orange Expert
Posts: 550
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:58 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Rocker 30C help please

Post by Jabberwocky » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:46 pm

A Rocker 30 that sounds thin and tinny is definitely a sick rocker. I use the head and even through a PPC112 loaded with the standard Vintage30 driver it sounds pretty loud and dark, never thin and tinny.
I would order up a full set of new tubes as a starter, thus eliminating that as the problem. If it stays thin and tinny then yes, get it to a tech (new tubes never hurt anyway) but I agree with the diagnosis that it is probably tubes. As for the minced up screws, well could be someone messing where they shoudn't be but could also be someone just changing tubes with a crap screwdriver...

Hope you get it sorted. Its a superb amp if you are into an uncompressed sound!
Fender USA Standard Stratocaster
Gordon Smith Galaxy
Gibson Les Paul Classic
Faith Jupiter Jumbo Acoustic
Orange Rocker 30 HD
Orange Micro Terror
Orange PPC 212 OB
Lead
Plectrum
Attitude
Sorted!

Les Paul Lover
Duke of Orange
Posts: 6821
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Derby, England

Re: Rocker 30C help please

Post by Les Paul Lover » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:40 pm

Gordy G wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:00 pm
Ok,thanks.When you say a visual inspection,is then when the Amp is on?,i suppose i'm looking for even glow across all tubes ?
This might be another dumb statement,but i'm not sure I've ever noticed the pre-amp tubes,i can see the EL34 glowing away(edit,it would be tricky with metal covers :) ),but not the AX7's(edit ECC83),is this normal?.
I'm going to go & drag the Amp in out of the Van & have a look at it,(now have the chassis out) .

Edited the pre-amp valves are ECC83,should it be normal for the centre 83 to be noticeably dimmer than the other 2?
I'm now getting a bit concerned having noticed the amount of screw driver rash on the Chassis/Panel screws & should the back panel screws be right through the rear surface of the baton,by about 3/8"(i'm old).
I think I'm definitely getting into tech section territory

To be honest, screw driver rash only indicates that the valves have been changed a number of times.
It's possible that the owner even refitted dodgy valves prior to the sale. Valves aren't particularly cheap.

Valve glow isn't always regular, and preamp valves are dimmer than power valves. One preamp valve noticeably dimmer isn't a concern in a working amp.

If you do some valve swapping, you can try that one 1st. Try and replace the preamp valves one at a time and see what difference it makes, good or bad. If there is no change, you may as well replace the old one in and try that new preamp valve in another slot. If you do it one at a time, you should find the faulty valve if there's one.

Change the power valves as a pair though.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5


Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

jontheid
Orange Expert
Posts: 821
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:05 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Rocker 30C help please

Post by jontheid » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:20 pm

What does it sound like on the 'Natural' channel? If this channel sounds ok then the power amp section is going to be ok and the problem is solely within the dirty channel preamp section.

Gordy G
Tiny Terror
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:53 pm
Location: Warrington,NW England

Re: Rocker 30C help please

Post by Gordy G » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:22 am

Thanks to everyone who's helped me out,i'll try & answer as briefly as possible(I tend to turn things into a book).
The natural channel also sounds "thin".
The screwdriver rash is on the big screws holding the Chassis to the back panel
The screws holding on the back panel where "mutilated",incredibly tight & seemed to me to be 1/2" too long,i'll have to replace them.
The main problem I have is I've never heard another R30(I've not even seen another one),so it's just my opinion & comparing it to the JRT & my old Cube 12" speaker.
The valves fitted are not JJ(must have been a figment of my or the previous owners imagination)they are unbranded ECC83 & EH EL34's,which I think look quite old,all the writing that's left is faded & smudged & some discolouration of the glass.
So I took my life in my hands & fitted the pre-amp valves from my JRT(which are JJ ECC83S) & it sounded more like I expect/want from it.
So unless there is a resounding "NO" :shock: ,i'm going to order a set of JJ's including the 83S pre amp tubes,which I want to do Today,so quick with the "NO's" :)
Many thanks for all the replies.

ps,any suggestions for a decent supplier,thanks.

Jondog
Duke of Orange
Posts: 7234
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:16 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Rocker 30C help please

Post by Jondog » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:58 am

I’d re-valve the amp, pre-amp and power amp.
Image

Jabberwocky
Orange Expert
Posts: 550
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:58 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Rocker 30C help please

Post by Jabberwocky » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:17 am

Fender USA Standard Stratocaster
Gordon Smith Galaxy
Gibson Les Paul Classic
Faith Jupiter Jumbo Acoustic
Orange Rocker 30 HD
Orange Micro Terror
Orange PPC 212 OB
Lead
Plectrum
Attitude
Sorted!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 162 guests