Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Orange Amps General Forum

Moderator: bclaire

Joebot888
New Member
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:21 pm

Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by Joebot888 » Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:06 am

fiveightandten wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:06 pm
Joebot888 wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:46 am
I kept moving em around. I wound up the TH30 almost all the way, on full power, with the gain just past noon. It was too quiet at half power, and the shape knob in the middle made the guitar just disappear. But turning the shape to about 3 o'clock made it cut. I could see if you wanted a pile of poop ton of gain, the TH would be a winner.

On the AD30 I ended up with the gain almost maxed, but the master about halfway. And I have a Jext Telez Uni Drive, and some orange two knob Fuzz/distortion, which I don't recall the name of... I used those a bit.

It's an impressively healthy sounding amp tho. I had to use the grit boxes less than I expected. And it never sounded thin or brittle. Strong as hell.
Nice. If you have another go at the AD30, try getting the master as high as you can, and dial in the gain from there. It's a loud amp, but the EL-84's start to break up early...this is when the amp sounds best, IMO. Channel 1 has a lot of bass. I find the amp cuts a lot better if the bass is rolled off to about 4 or so with hum buckers (I run mine even lower, around 3 for a tighter crunch).

Channel 2 bass can be around 5 or 6. Pumping the mid knob up helps on both channels. This is an FMV tone circuit, so you can get the mid knob quite high before it's really doing all that much.

I haven't played a TH30 in a band setting, so I can't comment on that. Good luck with the OR-50. It sounds like you'll be able to find something that does the job.

-Nick
I will definitely try that. Not sure where things will end up once our singer is up against this situation but hopefully it'll be good. In any event, no matter what happens, I know I'm good with the AD30. If the 50 is better, excellent. I expect an earthier character and a little more evil out of the OR50, but we'll see. It has to fit with the big picture, and even if it doesn't I know the 30 works!

Never woulda considered it as an option, so thanks to everybody here who recommended it.

Joebot888
New Member
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:21 pm

Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by Joebot888 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:04 am

Can anybody discuss the Or50 vs AD30?

Is the 50 way freaking louder? Or are they fairly close in volume?

Eddie Famine
Orange Hero
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by Eddie Famine » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:55 am

I don't think the OR50 is way louder.
But definitely turn the master volume up .

Bensnake
Orange Master
Posts: 2260
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:36 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by Bensnake » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:18 am

You need an OR100. Switchable between 100, 70, 50 and 30W. Sounds similar to the OR15 though fuller and beefier. It's discontinued so you have to get one on the used market.
Image
RV100 MKIII | '75 OR120 | OR100 | OR50 | CS50 | R30H | TT
2 x PPC412
Bax B. | Amp D.

Marshall 1959 HW + 1936V
Fender '65 Super Reverb Reissue
Vox AC30C2X + V212C

Playing Les Pauls and Teles...

Joebot888
New Member
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:21 pm

Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by Joebot888 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:59 am

Bensnake wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:18 am
You need an OR100. Switchable between 100, 70, 50 and 30W. Sounds similar to the OR15 though fuller and beefier. It's discontinued so you have to get one on the used market.
Oh, no. Not another candidate.

Doesn't the OR50 sound like the 15? Kinda? Same ballpark?

I have one sitting here, can't try it out til rehearsal tomorrow.

Can anybody tell me if there's any quantifiable sonic difference between the 40th Anniversary Or50 and the production model?

Les Paul Lover
Duke of Orange
Posts: 6776
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Derby, England

Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by Les Paul Lover » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:31 pm

Tone wise, they're exactly the same.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, Tiny Terror

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

Joebot888
New Member
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:21 pm

Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by Joebot888 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:04 pm

I guess this is the 40th Anniversary model.

Anyway, to conclude the story, I tried the OR50 out at practice and it took literally 5 seconds for it to leave the other amps in the dust.

I didn't like the TH30 at all.

I loved the AD30 but the gain flavor of the 50 is perfectly suited to what we're doing. I barely needed pedals. It just sounded great. GREAT. Exactly what I was looking for.

It is a little loud. I asked the singer if I was too loud and she just started laughing. She said, "You're loud as hell now but I don't care, I want you playing THAT."

I'm not looking forward to sound men grumbling at me, I don't want to put the master lower than 2 o clock because it starts to lose what makes it special, and the drummer was like, "well, I can't hear the drums as well now." And that's a drag. Maybe I'll take one of the 412s out of play for rehearsal.

But straight out the gate, with tone controls at noon, HF at about 1:30--seriously, without a single adjustment from store to practice, it sounded exactly how I like to sound.

Now, I'll tell you what, if Orange will make a 30 watt version of this thing, something I can run on full master volume, I'll buy it in a heartbeat. IN A SECOND. The day it hits the shelves. Come on! Let's make this happen!! What the hell?!

WHERE IS THE OR30???

I've ruled out the OR100. I know it's scalable but I don't want channel switching, I don't wanna lug that around, I don't need 100 watts ever and I'm done dropping close to 2gs on a head for now. I need a second SG and I've gotta stop spending that kinda money.

But the 50 is a monster winner.

Dishonorable mention goes to Guitar Center, again, for taking 5 days to ship the 50 from one Michigan location to another. What else is new?

fiveightandten
Orange Master
Posts: 3845
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2003 6:18 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by fiveightandten » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:47 pm

Awesome. Glad to hear you found something you're happy with.

Personally, I'm so over being too loud at gigs, I would've stuck with the amp that was the right power. But if you think you can make the OR50 work, go for it.

Maybe you can mod the OR50 to take a pair of 6V6s.
Image
'71 GRO100 || '96 OR-80 || AD30 || '64 AC-50 || AC-30TBX || Hiwatt DR504 || HI-TONE HT30
LP Standard || LP Studio || LP Custom Lite || Ric 620 || Ric 360 || MIA Tele || SG 61 RI

ironlung40
Orange Master
Posts: 2844
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:10 pm
Location: USA (in the south)

Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by ironlung40 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:55 pm

I do believe that you could run EL84's in that OR50 with the yellowjacket converters to reduce the volume. Not sure how it would affect the feel and tone of the amp, but it might be an option worth considering to lower that 50 to maybe a 20 to 30 watt amp.

Check them out if you don't already know about it or if this wasn't what you were referring to already.

https://www.yellowjacketstc.com/
Sincerely,
Ironlung40
OR120 Pix
Tiny Terror HW
Rocker 30 combo
Gibson SG 61'--Gibson RD Standard--Gibson SG Special 67'
Image

fiveightandten
Orange Master
Posts: 3845
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2003 6:18 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by fiveightandten » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:13 pm

ironlung40 wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:55 pm
I do believe that you could run EL84's in that OR50 with the yellowjacket converters to reduce the volume. Not sure how it would affect the feel and tone of the amp, but it might be an option worth considering to lower that 50 to maybe a 20 to 30 watt amp.

Check them out if you don't already know about it or if this wasn't what you were referring to already.

https://www.yellowjacketstc.com/
Unfortunately, that will bring him right back to a 2 x EL-84 power section, which is what he's getting away from (it wasn't loud enough).
Image
'71 GRO100 || '96 OR-80 || AD30 || '64 AC-50 || AC-30TBX || Hiwatt DR504 || HI-TONE HT30
LP Standard || LP Studio || LP Custom Lite || Ric 620 || Ric 360 || MIA Tele || SG 61 RI

ironlung40
Orange Master
Posts: 2844
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:10 pm
Location: USA (in the south)

Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by ironlung40 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:42 pm

Oh. I see.

Well, everything is a compromise at best, I suppose. Truth is I like my amp sound for a bit, then don't, and back and forth. I have tried so many amps, and can't say that I have ever been completely satisfied with anything that I have played for too long, but the amp I have and always come back too and enjoy the most is the OR120.

I have learned that I "somewhat" ignore all of the subtleties between amps now and just let it rip and focus more on my playing and the riffs or song structures now. From seeing so many of my favorite bands play through just about anything live and it still serving the song just fine, I think that it probably matters less what we play through than we think. With that said, I get that finding the proper mix within the band is important and you want to like your core tone as much as possible.
Sincerely,
Ironlung40
OR120 Pix
Tiny Terror HW
Rocker 30 combo
Gibson SG 61'--Gibson RD Standard--Gibson SG Special 67'
Image

Joebot888
New Member
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:21 pm

Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by Joebot888 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:04 am

ironlung40 wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:42 pm
Oh. I see.

Well, everything is a compromise at best, I suppose. Truth is I like my amp sound for a bit, then don't, and back and forth. I have tried so many amps, and can't say that I have ever been completely satisfied with anything that I have played for too long, but the amp I have and always come back too and enjoy the most is the OR120.

I have learned that I "somewhat" ignore all of the subtleties between amps now and just let it rip and focus more on my playing and the riffs or song structures now. From seeing so many of my favorite bands play through just about anything live and it still serving the song just fine, I think that it probably matters less what we play through than we think. With that said, I get that finding the proper mix within the band is important and you want to like your core tone as much as possible.
I love the OR50 tone. Oddly, despite being a bit louder than the AD30, i don't feel quite as present in the mix, at least not so far. But the cleanliness of the AD30 was a bit of an issue, and I don't like to rely on pedals for the dirt. Everything is a compromise and the 50 is the sound that's most consistent with the band and w the record we just finished (95% of which was tracked with the OR15). I couldn't get with changing the sound that dramatically before the record even comes out. And the grind of the 50 is just right. It's exciting.

On the flip side, the 30 totally put me in the mix in a way that allowed me to hear myself and let me focus on my playing and that's a big deal.

So the saga might not be over quite yet.

Our drummer suggested running the 50 and the 30 in stereo.... but that's crazy, from a volume perspective!

fiveightandten
Orange Master
Posts: 3845
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2003 6:18 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by fiveightandten » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:24 pm

Joebot888 wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:04 am
I love the OR50 tone. Oddly, despite being a bit louder than the AD30, i don't feel quite as present in the mix, at least not so far. But the cleanliness of the AD30 was a bit of an issue, and I don't like to rely on pedals for the dirt. Everything is a compromise and the 50 is the sound that's most consistent with the band and w the record we just finished (95% of which was tracked with the OR15). I couldn't get with changing the sound that dramatically before the record even comes out. And the grind of the 50 is just right. It's exciting.

On the flip side, the 30 totally put me in the mix in a way that allowed me to hear myself and let me focus on my playing and that's a big deal.

So the saga might not be over quite yet.

Our drummer suggested running the 50 and the 30 in stereo.... but that's crazy, from a volume perspective!
Turn the bass down on the OR50 and it will cut better. The AD30 is very midrange oriented, which is why it cuts nice. EL-84's and that tiny output transformer don't amplify a lot of low end.

The best thing you can do to be more present in a live mix is to turn the gain down. The 2nd best thing is to turn the bass down. The OR50 has a lot more gain, and has more gain stages in the pre-amp. It will inherently compress the transients more, so all things being equal, it won't be slapping your ears as much as a cleaner amp. But that doesn't mean you can't get it to do what you want.

You're hearing partly more bass and less mid, partially the affects of more gain, and partly the different response of the EL-34 output section. You have control over a few of those things. You can also try a lower gain pre-amp tube in different positions within the pre-amp. Don't go crazy, a 5751 or 12AY-7 will do to clean it up slightly.
Image
'71 GRO100 || '96 OR-80 || AD30 || '64 AC-50 || AC-30TBX || Hiwatt DR504 || HI-TONE HT30
LP Standard || LP Studio || LP Custom Lite || Ric 620 || Ric 360 || MIA Tele || SG 61 RI

Joebot888
New Member
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:21 pm

Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by Joebot888 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:23 am

fiveightandten wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:24 pm
Joebot888 wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:04 am
I love the OR50 tone. Oddly, despite being a bit louder than the AD30, i don't feel quite as present in the mix, at least not so far. But the cleanliness of the AD30 was a bit of an issue, and I don't like to rely on pedals for the dirt. Everything is a compromise and the 50 is the sound that's most consistent with the band and w the record we just finished (95% of which was tracked with the OR15). I couldn't get with changing the sound that dramatically before the record even comes out. And the grind of the 50 is just right. It's exciting.

On the flip side, the 30 totally put me in the mix in a way that allowed me to hear myself and let me focus on my playing and that's a big deal.

So the saga might not be over quite yet.

Our drummer suggested running the 50 and the 30 in stereo.... but that's crazy, from a volume perspective!
Turn the bass down on the OR50 and it will cut better. The AD30 is very midrange oriented, which is why it cuts nice. EL-84's and that tiny output transformer don't amplify a lot of low end.

The best thing you can do to be more present in a live mix is to turn the gain down. The 2nd best thing is to turn the bass down. The OR50 has a lot more gain, and has more gain stages in the pre-amp. It will inherently compress the transients more, so all things being equal, it won't be slapping your ears as much as a cleaner amp. But that doesn't mean you can't get it to do what you want.

You're hearing partly more bass and less mid, partially the affects of more gain, and partly the different response of the EL-34 output section. You have control over a few of those things. You can also try a lower gain pre-amp tube in different positions within the pre-amp. Don't go crazy, a 5751 or 12AY-7 will do to clean it up slightly.
Thanks. I will try that for sure. I'm only running gain about 2 o clock, all the tone controls at noon, HF at about 2 o'clock. I'll roll off some bottom and push the mids a bit. It's not invisible, you know (not like stepping on a Sovtek invisible) so a little adjustment will go a long way I think.

fiveightandten
Orange Master
Posts: 3845
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2003 6:18 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by fiveightandten » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:36 pm

Joebot888 wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:23 am
Thanks. I will try that for sure. I'm only running gain about 2 o clock, all the tone controls at noon, HF at about 2 o'clock. I'll roll off some bottom and push the mids a bit. It's not invisible, you know (not like stepping on a Sovtek invisible) so a little adjustment will go a long way I think.
2:00 is quite a bit of gain on the OR50, depending on what kind of music you're playing. Though, I'm more of a classic crunch kind of player so I may not be the best litmus test if you're running a very dirty sound and need a lot of gain. I get away with 70's Hiwatt gain levels no problem. Haha.


The bass knob is very important too. My personal approach is to start with a very midrange heavy sound, and fill in bass and treble enough to even things out so it doesn't sound boxy. I typically start with the bass on zero and turn it up until I hear the low end start to take over the midrange, then I back it off a hair. At volume, it'll be noticeable. There's a point where it stops filling the sound in and starts to scoop or overcome the mids. You want to be right at that transition point on the bass knob. It may be quite low, especially on Orange amps. I run the bass knobs on my AD30 around 9:00, or almost completely off sometimes on channel 1. Low end moves speakers, and can soften up your attack and note transients, so use it sparingly if the goal is to cut.

This is all relative, too. If you play in a 2 guitar band (or with keyboards), you'll need less low and and mostly midrange. If you're the only guitar, you can get away with a lot more low end before you get lost.

The idea is to find the frequency range where you have room to exist. Every band is different. Too much low end, and you'll waste energy pushing frequencies that are competing with the bass. Too much high end, and you're just contributing to white noise along with the cymbal wash, and not adding any clarity while the band is going. But if you're all mids, it will sound boxy, so there's a delicate balance.

And this is an approach to be very present in a live mix. Not everyone wants that. Some players may be holding down the rhythm and want the sound to blend and be more passive. That's a totally different approach. But to cut, start with: Mid - 10, Bass - 0, Treble - 0. Turn the bass up until it starts to overpower the mids, and back off. Turn the treble up to gain needed clarity (different for different guitars and speakers), use the lowest amount of gain you can get away with before you're killing note decay.
Image
'71 GRO100 || '96 OR-80 || AD30 || '64 AC-50 || AC-30TBX || Hiwatt DR504 || HI-TONE HT30
LP Standard || LP Studio || LP Custom Lite || Ric 620 || Ric 360 || MIA Tele || SG 61 RI

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 58 guests