Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

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Joebot888
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Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by Joebot888 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:31 pm

After years of trying different Marshall, Orange and Verellen amps, I finally settled on the OR15--pumped through two old Marshall 412s--as my ultimate all-purpose live rig. (I roll out the Rockerverb 100 for outdoor stuff or bigger rooms.) When we recorded our LP, I used the OR15 on pretty much every track, usually just one, big, single guitar.

So far, so good. My band plays old school rock, a Zep-Stooges-Cheap Trick-Sleep-Classic Metal hybrid. Whatever. Blah blah blah.

But okay, our new drummer is LOUD AS HELL. Which is great. But my rehearsal rig (the OR15 into two 412s) is now getting buried. Totally buried, whereas before i was always too loud, even with the 15.

So, which 50 should I upgrade to?

OR50? Seems like the closest sonic relative to the 15.

Custom Shop 50? Seems like the watt selector 25-50 will really come in handy.

Dual Terror 50? I recently got the lunch box Dark Terror for my wife, to use as a bass head with an Ampeg 210, and when I put a guitar through it I thought it was killer. Totally killer.

So what's my best bet? I mean, naturally I gotta go to the store and try em all out, but first I have to find a store with all 3, and then really testing out a 50 in a store is weird. People get pissed off, and I hate playing guitar super loud in the shop. It's annoying. And meanwhile I'm getting drown out at practice.

Any input is much appreciated.

Jondog
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Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by Jondog » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:44 pm

Why not just use the RV100? Otherwise I'd go OR50 or Custom Shop 50. There is no Dual Terror 50, unless you mean Dual Dark 50.
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Joebot888
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Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by Joebot888 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:59 pm

Because I want to run my power tubes hot, not at 9 o'clock. And the 100, at 9 o'clock, will be too loud for any practice, any indoor venue, any practical use.

Plus, running a master that low makes the whole amp sound like pile of poop. An amp isn't really speaking til that master (if there is one) hits 2-4 o clock. At least in my experience.

I guess people could debate that last point. Lemme put it this way: I prefer an amp that's being pushed. I think it sounds better like that.

And yes, sorry, Dual Terror.

fiveightandten
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Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by fiveightandten » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:11 pm

If the 100W is too loud, a 50W will be as well. It sounds like you need to go with a 30W.

The AD30 might also be a good choice if it has enough gain for you.
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'71 GRO100 || '96 OR-80 || AD30 || '64 AC-50 || AC-30TBX || Hiwatt DR504 || HI-TONE HT30
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Joebot888
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Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by Joebot888 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:22 pm

I had a Rocker 30 once.

I didn't like it at all.

That's why the Custom seems a good bet. 25 for practice or most shows, switch it to 50 for bigger rooms, outdoor shows, or when acoustics favor the drums and I'm getting buried.

Only concern is if the CS sounds enough like The OR 15. I use the amp gain by itself more than half the time, pushed to about 2 o'clock. Is the CS sonically close enough to the Or15?

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Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by Joebot888 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:37 pm

But I will take a look at the AD30... I've always heard good things. But I've heard it's Vox-y... I have a Korg AC30 and it's great but not at all right for this band.

Over The last couple years, the OR15 has kinda become the voice of the band, or at least, like, "my sound" and it suits The band perfectly.... so I need something close.

fiveightandten
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Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by fiveightandten » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:55 pm

Joebot888 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:37 pm
But I will take a look at the AD30... I've always heard good things. But I've heard it's Vox-y... I have a Korg AC30 and it's great but not at all right for this band.

Over The last couple years, the OR15 has kinda become the voice of the band, or at least, like, "my sound" and it suits The band perfectly.... so I need something close.
I also have a Korg AC-30TBX. The AD30 is a different beast. It’s gainier, more aggressive, and has a fatter wetter sound.

AD30 channel 2 can get into Vox territory, but not quite. It’s the Orange mid gain overdrive where the AD30 shines. It’s also very good at edge of breakup clean tones.

You want one that’s got the Demeter transformers, as they sound noticeably better (post 2005).
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'71 GRO100 || '96 OR-80 || AD30 || '64 AC-50 || AC-30TBX || Hiwatt DR504 || HI-TONE HT30
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Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by Joebot888 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:29 pm

Right on. Now, are we talking the older single channel or the new one? I just now walked out of a shop that has the twin channel used for $850.

And I'm feelin like it's a sign. Because I am a compulsive knucklehead.

fiveightandten
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Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by fiveightandten » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:24 pm

Joebot888 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:29 pm
Right on. Now, are we talking the older single channel or the new one? I just now walked out of a shop that has the twin channel used for $850.

And I'm feelin like it's a sign. Because I am a compulsive knucklehead.
The single channel is basically channel 1 of the twin channel. All single channel amps are the old design with the old transformers. I'd stick with a twin channel, personally. It's a lot more versatile...and this is coming from someone who isn't a fan of channel switchers.

$850 is kind of on the high end for a head. But that's to be expected from a music store. Is the face panel the old style (text only), or the new style (pics and text)?

New:
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Old:
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'71 GRO100 || '96 OR-80 || AD30 || '64 AC-50 || AC-30TBX || Hiwatt DR504 || HI-TONE HT30
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Jondog
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Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by Jondog » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:33 pm

I'd say go fir the AD30.
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Ronnie Robinson
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Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by Ronnie Robinson » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:31 pm

The ad30 was made for old school rock ....thats what it does and it sounds great.

channel 2 has slightly more gain and more upper mids.

No effects loop if that's important to you and limited clean headroom at high volume, but has fantastic sounding sag.

Easy maintenance also as valve biasing not required but unfortunately it needs winding up to sound good..... at shop volumes it will just sound choked and not very inspiring....so not a good one to test in store.

I've never felt mine was anything like a vox.
Orange AD30 HTC
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Orange Tiny Terror HW,
Fender elite Start, Gibson SG 61,fender telecaster

Previously Owned - Rocker 30
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Joebot888
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Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by Joebot888 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:41 pm

It's the newer one.

So do you guys think the AD30 will sound MORE like my OR15 tone wise than the OR 50 or CS 50?

Cuz that's ultimately what I'm looking for: same tone, more volume.

fiveightandten
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Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by fiveightandten » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:51 am

Joebot888 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:41 pm
It's the newer one.

So do you guys think the AD30 will sound MORE like my OR15 tone wise than the OR 50 or CS 50?

Cuz that's ultimately what I'm looking for: same tone, more volume.
The OR15 has more gain than the AD30. But both amps have cathode biased EL-84's, and TMB without Presence control. It's a similar sound. The OR50 and CS50 have EL-34s, so they don't have the EL-84 midrange response. The gain on the OR50 is more like your OR15, but the power amp and presence make it different. The CS50 is back towards AD30 levels of gain, but again, with an EL-34 power section and presence circuit.

If you're wanting the sound of the amp cranked, as you mentioned previously, I think the AD30 is the closest choice, as the power amp is most similar to a beefed up OR15 power amp. Again, the OR15 is gainier, but if you're not using everything is has on tap, the AD30 should get you plenty of dirt. The pre-amps for the OR50 and CS50 are probably a little closer to your OR15, but when cranking the amp up, you're using less of that sound.

None of them are exactly like a higher powered OR15. But the AD30 seems to fit best into the power range you need, and as long as you don't need the extra pre-amp gain of the OR50, it's probably the closest choice. That's my 2 cents, maybe others will be able to provide some other insight.
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'71 GRO100 || '96 OR-80 || AD30 || '64 AC-50 || AC-30TBX || Hiwatt DR504 || HI-TONE HT30
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Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by Joebot888 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:17 am

fiveightandten wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:51 am
Joebot888 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:41 pm
It's the newer one.

So do you guys think the AD30 will sound MORE like my OR15 tone wise than the OR 50 or CS 50?

Cuz that's ultimately what I'm looking for: same tone, more volume.
The OR15 has more gain than the AD30. But both amps have cathode biased EL-84's, and TMB without Presence control. It's a similar sound. The OR50 and CS50 have EL-34s, so they don't have the EL-84 midrange response. The gain on the OR50 is more like your OR15, but the power amp and presence make it different. The CS50 is back towards AD30 levels of gain, but again, with an EL-34 power section and presence circuit.

If you're wanting the sound of the amp cranked, as you mentioned previously, I think the AD30 is the closest choice, as the power amp is most similar to a beefed up OR15 power amp. Again, the OR15 is gainier, but if you're not using everything is has on tap, the AD30 should get you plenty of dirt. The pre-amps for the OR50 and CS50 are probably a little closer to your OR15, but when cranking the amp up, you're using less of that sound.

None of them are exactly like a higher powered OR15. But the AD30 seems to fit best into the power range you need, and as long as you don't need the extra pre-amp gain of the OR50, it's probably the closest choice. That's my 2 cents, maybe others will be able to provide some other insight.
That's super helpful. The OR50 sounds kinda sludgy on YouTube, the CS sounds maybe a hair polite... I'll have to try the 50 and then run across town and try out that AD... but I'm starting to lean toward the AD.

I've had a lotta Oranges over the years... a 1972 OR120, Rocker 30, my wife has that Dark Terror now and I've still got a Tiny Terror, the RV100 and the 15. The 15 is the first tone out of all of 'em that just sounded exactly right outta the box, and I've never had trouble with it being too loud or not loud enough (til now).

Hopefully the 30 will be that with the necessary extra push.

fiveightandten
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Re: Again, OR50 vs CS50 vs DT50

Post by fiveightandten » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:03 am

Joebot888 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:17 am
That's super helpful. The OR50 sounds kinda sludgy on YouTube, the CS sounds maybe a hair polite... I'll have to try the 50 and then run across town and try out that AD... but I'm starting to lean toward the AD.

I've had a lotta Oranges over the years... a 1972 OR120, Rocker 30, my wife has that Dark Terror now and I've still got a Tiny Terror, the RV100 and the 15. The 15 is the first tone out of all of 'em that just sounded exactly right outta the box, and I've never had trouble with it being too loud or not loud enough (til now).

Hopefully the 30 will be that with the necessary extra push.
The AD30 is plenty loud to keep up with any drummer. The only downfall, if you will, at high volumes is that it doesn't have a lot of headroom (no EL84 amps really do). The master volumes work well to get decent tones at reasonable volumes, but it definitely sounds best cranked up IMO. Around 7 or so on the masters, it starts to push the output section and gets little raunchy and puts some hair on the sound.

You definitely have to get the AD30 working a bit though. As someone mentioned above, you'll be pretty uninspired if you play it at low volume in a music store. Bare minimum, I'd say the masters have to be on 5 until it starts to open up and breathe a bit.

BTW, the new style face plate will have the good (Demeter) transformers in it.
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'71 GRO100 || '96 OR-80 || AD30 || '64 AC-50 || AC-30TBX || Hiwatt DR504 || HI-TONE HT30
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