RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)

Orange Amps General Forum

Moderator: bclaire

Post Reply
D|C|M|E
Tiny Terror
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:32 pm

RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)

Post by D|C|M|E » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:46 pm

I'll try to keep this as brief as possible. I'm not going to name the dealer from whom I purchased this amp because I don't want to defame anyone. You're probably going to figure out who it is but do me a favor and keep that to yourself if you do. My goal is NOT to attack the dealer in question but some of the information presented in the following may make them look bad. I just want my amp to work properly. I finally took the plunge into owning an Orange head and 412 cabinet and I just want to have the experience associated with the best aspects of owning an Orange amp rig.

Just the facts:

I purchased an RV50H MkII earlier this year. It was purchased from a reputable dealer's online store. The amp was listed as "B-stock" and therefore available at a pretty nice discount for a legit payment plan. Not to mention, you can't really find guaranteed MKII's anymore since the MKIII has taken the market over for RV's.

The reason I've been drawn to the MKII is because of the Mid control on the Clean channel and because I can't dig the notched knobs on the MKIII. I just can't pay the price of an Orange and have those limitations. I understand that it works for some. I'm not good with those attributes. I wanted to make that clear so people understand why I didn't go for a brand new MKIII.

I got the amp in the first week of March 2017. I had to run it through two 12" Carvin speakers from the late 90's. That's all I had available to run it through. The speakers are not amazing. They do the job. Problems I noticed:

1. The amp showed up with some dirt stains on the top near the front. Not a functional issue but sort of insulting when you consider the cost. I noticed this immediately, felt uneasy but thought "as long as the magic is inside, I can overlook it." Well... For the record, I never even mentioned this to any customer support because I didn't want it to be distracting them from the REAL issues.

2. The AC jack on the back where the power cable attaches was uncomfortably loose from the chassis. There was a good amount of a play on this plastic piece every time I attached or detached the cable. I've played and owned a number of professional level tube amps and I've never experienced this. Not the bitter end of the amp but highly disconcerting, again, due to the price tag and just in general not what you want to see with an amp of any kind.

3. The EQ. I didn't feel like I was getting the proper sweep from the EQ knobs on the Dirty channel. I managed to set it in ways that achieved some cool tones, mostly softer, flatter, more vintage toned settings. These were cool but only part of the reason why I chose Orange. I was led to believe from countless youtube videos and some minimal personal experience with a couple of different orange models (OR15, CS50) that I was going to be able to achieve some much thicker, "syrupy" and intense settings via this EQ on the Dirty channel in concert with the Gain knob. I was disconcerted but chalked it up to my speakers being not ideal. The clean channel had a pretty killer response. I play a slew of high gain fuzz pedals over pristine clean tones. That's part of my sound. The RV50 MKII through my speakers achieved excellent cleans and provided an excellent pallet for running my fuzz boxes. I was pleased with this part of the amp but the Dirty EQ seemed weak.

4. The Gain knob. I got a pretty normal response from 0 to 12 O'clock. Once this knob was turned to about 1:30, the guitar signal and the overdrive were audible but there was also a thick "syrupy" oscillation tone that streamed from the amp while I played, while I didn't play and even when I completely turned all the volume from the guitar down all the way down. Still this thick oscillation tone streamed from the amp. This was the biggest issue. The absolute deal-breaker. I thought it could be something regarding my speakers so I actually brought the head to a Guitar Center and played it through a straight PPC412 and still had the oscillation. Sidenote: This problem eventually was fixed and I'll get to that but I wanted to include this issue as part of the history in this never ending post so you can all assess how there may still be lasting effects from that problem.

5. Some nasty noise in the first 4 spots on the Clean channel Volume knob. Not the end of the world but for something that is guaranteed to work like a "brand new" piece of gear, as per the guarantee made by the dealer, it shouldn't be happening.

Of course, this whole ordeal has lasted since March and all of my troubleshooting had taken over 2 months. I just didn't have the time resources to get all this figured out in just a few days.

Finally, in May I contacted the dealer who guarantees the item with 2 year repair coverage. Awesome. I talk for 40 minutes explaining all the issues to a tech who says it could be that a single preamp tube is bad to explain issues 3 and 4 above. He sends a tube and I get it in a day and a half. Cool. I place it in every position that calls for a 12AX7 just to be thorough. Still the problem persists.

I email back and say it didn't help. They send a shipping label and I send it back. They have it for about 5 days give or take which is fine. It gets shipped back. I was never contacted about the findings or the repairs that may have actually occurred. The amp comes back to my shipping address and the report that came with it, which doesn't even show the full text because the box on the sheet of paper is too small to show all the writing that's been done by the tech but I can see there is more because the cut-off tops of the letters are visible just above the bottom border line of the text box. Report states that issues #2 and #5 (as numbered above) were taken care of. That's good. Then the report says "No other problems were found with the operation." Great. I set it up and plug in and the EQ on Dirty is weak and the oscillation persists. How did this tech not hear this? I'm fed up at this point. I'm at a loss.

I send an email asking to see this full report. 5 days later I get sent no text, no real answer but instead another shipping label. This is kind of insolent and just plain poor communication. I don't care for that response.

I muster up the calm needed to re-contact the dealer by phone. I finally get through to another tech support rep. and I explain the persisting issues in great detail again. He asks me if I'm sure the oscillation is not just "feedback." I almost get upset but I reign it in as I'm sure they get questions that can be sussed out easily by such suggestions because people looking for technical help, don't always know what they are talking about. I get that. That's my full time job. Anyway, I insist and explain that feedback usually stops if you cut the signal from the guitar going to the amp by zeroing out the guitar volume knob and I continued to have oscillation past this point. Finally we arrange for a faster shipping label to come back to me.

I send it back. Its gone for about 4 days and comes back. They still don't reach out to me to let me know what they found, which would be nice instead of just wondering if they found the issue while I track it and if they didn't I could guide them to the settings that are causing my problem but whatever. I open the box look at that poorly constructed print out of a report and at last vindication. Report reads: "Finally the problem exhibited itself." You don't say! It goes on "The multicolored ribbon cable moved too close to the power tube board and caused [speratic oscilation]." The typos are the tech's writing. I'm assuming they meant "sporadic oscillation." It goes on "This is why it did not act up last time, because it happened to move out of trouble before I...[then the text cuts off]" I moved this amp around many times while it was not in use and never in the course of moving it around and plugging back in did the problem ever stop even temporarily. Every time I plugged in, I got this problem. I don’t believe he had been thorough the first time. Anyway, the action for resolution on the report reads "Re-routing of the ribbon cable cured the issue. It is secured away from the problem area. tested all ok."

I plugged it in and the oscillation is gone thankfully. However, I ordered a PPC412 angled cab and plugged it into this cabinet and while there is no oscillation, the EQ on the dirty channel is weak. I know that watching demo videos is no substitute for the real experience of playing through an amp but it’s pretty unmistakable when you can hear how intense and chunky an amp sounds from these demos only to struggle to attain similar tones from the 50 watt head pumping through a 412 that was designed to compliment that very head. I've seen videos where they run the dirty channel with flattened EQ and it still sounds better than my head with EQ bands boosted and tweaked and messed with for hours. I know it is said that these are “dark” amps but the Treble control is seriously dead. The gain structure in high settings sounds transparent and hollow. There’s plenty of saturation but none of the bold chunk and dense push that I expect from any functioning 50 watt head with the volume up to nearly half and even beyond half.

Here's another tidbit that was revealed. The first time I talked to customer service I brought up that I noticed on the official receipt for this amp on the description line it reads "Orange Refurb Rockerverb 50W Head w/Rev - Orange." I asked the customer service rep. and he said even though it was labeled as "B-Stock" they still consider refurbished gear as "B-stock." Right away I don't like that. To me, when I ordered from the item's description page, where the word "refurbished" was nowhere to be found, I took B-Stock to indicate just what the literature on the page indicates and nothing about it indicated that this could have been refurbished. He mentioned that they "got these heads from a place" (there were two "B-stocks" available at the time I ordered) and I was pretty aghast at the concept. To me, a dealer holding "B-stock" gear means it has been used by that specific dealer to do demos or use for recording or maybe has a scratch or a dent or something to that effect, not that these are some random pieces they made a deal with some other entity to acquire and they've been refurbished (maybe) by them or someone else and who the hell knows what they've been through. Let's just say, I didn't get a "CarFax" for the amp and I have a feeling this head has had a shaky history. But it was sold to me like it should perform exactly as a brand new amp should perform with the heading of “B-Stock.” That's what they say. It should be performing as if it were brand new. Those are their words.

If you've gotten all the way through this. What do you think?

Is this amp too sketchy for me to ever expect that it will work for me the way Orange Amps intended it to?

Will bringing all this to the attention of Orange customer service get me any satisfaction?

I'm sorry for how long this is. I just need some guidance and had to express all the conditions of my situation.

Thank you for reading. If you have any feedback, I'm interested in reading it.
Orange Rockerverb 100 MKIII [2017]
Orange PPC412-A [2017]
Orange PPC412 [2017]
Gibson SG Standard Silverburst [2007]
Gibson SG Standard Heritage Cherry [2016]
More than a dozen drive/Fuzz boxes.

bclaire
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17905
Joined: Thu May 02, 2002 9:19 pm
Location: Outside Boston MA, USA
Contact:

Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)

Post by bclaire » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:39 pm

You are waaay more patient than I'd be.

B-Stock refers to a number of things: usually shopworn, demos, or returns, but I guess it could refer to something that has been returned and "gone through."

I would contact Orange Customer Service immediately....

langmurf
Rocker
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:18 am
Location: 35 miles NE of the ATL

Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)

Post by langmurf » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:33 am

bclaire wrote:
Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:39 pm
You are waaay more patient than I'd be.

B-Stock refers to a number of things: usually shopworn, demos, or returns, but I guess it could refer to something that has been returned and "gone through."

I would contact Orange Customer Service immediately....
Fully concur... Orange CS is, in my experience, top shelf. How the "refurb / b stock" thing impacts warranty support, I have no clue.
Orange Rocker 15 Combo, Orange Two Stroke
2007 Gibson Melody Maker; Cort Steinberger

langmurf
Rocker
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:18 am
Location: 35 miles NE of the ATL

Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)

Post by langmurf » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:38 am

D|C|M|E wrote:
Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:46 pm
I'll try to keep this as brief as possible.
Hahaha!

And... just kidding... you -had- to lay it all out... but "brief as possible"? A disclaimer not required, imho. No dis intended. Just found it humorous, is all.
Orange Rocker 15 Combo, Orange Two Stroke
2007 Gibson Melody Maker; Cort Steinberger

Ronnie Robinson
Orange Master
Posts: 3148
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 3:39 am
Location: In the beautyful North , UK
Contact:

Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)

Post by Ronnie Robinson » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:28 am

Im in the UK and my experience of Orange amp dealers and Orange customer services is that it is first class.

Yes B stock can meant a range of things. Hope you get it sorted.
Orange AD30 HTC
Orange Rocker 15 terror
Orange Tiny Terror HW,
Fender elite Start, Gibson SG 61,fender telecaster

Previously Owned - Rocker 30
Image

D|C|M|E
Tiny Terror
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:32 pm

Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)

Post by D|C|M|E » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:09 am

I very much appreciate everyone's input. Thank you all.

langmurf wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:38 am
D|C|M|E wrote:
Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:46 pm
I'll try to keep this as brief as possible.
Hahaha!

And... just kidding... you -had- to lay it all out... but "brief as possible"? A disclaimer not required, imho. No dis intended. Just found it humorous, is all.
Haha! Dude, I know. I was fully intending on being more concise and direct and it just spun out of control. I just had to go that far. I appreciate you finding the humor even though it was not actually intended. I did not feel dissed :D


The more I play this thing, the more I'm torn. Part of me is thinking that the brand new cab speakers just need to be broken in and part of me is thinking that maybe there is a different tube set combination that will make my head's tone more muddy. Believe it or not I actually kind of WANT there to be muddiness. I know that sounds crazy. I appreciate the clarity it does have but I almost feel like that clarity is at the cost of making the saturation too transparent. I appreciate note articulation but I also like massive, dense chunks of oversaturated chords and lead lines. Like fuzz pedals tend to get.

Does anyone think that a different/new tube set COULD be in order? Just trying to rule things out.


Thank you all again.
Orange Rockerverb 100 MKIII [2017]
Orange PPC412-A [2017]
Orange PPC412 [2017]
Gibson SG Standard Silverburst [2007]
Gibson SG Standard Heritage Cherry [2016]
More than a dozen drive/Fuzz boxes.

Jondog
Duke of Orange
Posts: 7234
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:16 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)

Post by Jondog » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:41 am

That certainly is a pain in the a$$. The cable causing the oscillation makes sense to me. It also makes sense to me that they might not of been able to hear it the first time as the cable 'could' move around during shipping, also depending what cable it is, the power source could be better/cleaner in one place than the other. Seeing as it is b-stock, it's possible the tubes are old and on their way out. Sending one tube to you is a waste of time..unless you know only one tube is no good, and which tube it is! If it were me, I would put new tubes in it. It might be worth taking it to a local tech to have a look at it. They might have some extra good tubes lying around you can test it with to see if that's the case, or if you're lucky, they have a tube tester. I've owned an MKll, it's a serious sounding amp, definitely not weak.
Image

D|C|M|E
Tiny Terror
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:32 pm

Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)

Post by D|C|M|E » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:05 pm

Jondog wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:41 am
That certainly is a pain in the a$$. The cable causing the oscillation makes sense to me. It also makes sense to me that they might not of been able to hear it the first time as the cable 'could' move around during shipping, also depending what cable it is, the power source could be better/cleaner in one place than the other. Seeing as it is b-stock, it's possible the tubes are old and on their way out. Sending one tube to you is a waste of time..unless you know only one tube is no good, and which tube it is! If it were me, I would put new tubes in it. It might be worth taking it to a local tech to have a look at it. They might have some extra good tubes lying around you can test it with to see if that's the case, or if you're lucky, they have a tube tester. I've owned an MKll, it's a serious sounding amp, definitely not weak.
I appreciate that feedback. I am thinking about trying to source some really nice tubes and have a tech bias the power tubes and I could just get the preamp tubes in there by myself as I am told there is no such biasing or other processes necessary on replacement of preamp tubes. I've been trying to look at the power tubes currently inside the head but I'm not seeing any obvious printing of the tube model on the glass. The switch on the back panel is set to the EL34 side so that's probably what they are... I hope! But considering this thing's history, who knows.

Is it possible to place EL84's in this head even though neither side of the switch lists that possibility? I'm not sure I want to do that for any reason, just want to know if its an option.

Also, I love keeping my clean channel completely away from breakup at as high a volume setting as possible. Can you or anyone else recommend any power tube model or brand/model that can maintain that?

On the clean channel, my current tubes are staying super clean with the volume up to half. Is there a good 12AX7 (or variant) for the clean gain stage V1 position (I think) that would help me retain that cleanliness? Is there a power tube brand/model that will assist in retaining that cleanliness also?

I've played tube amps for almost 20 years but admittedly have never gotten into the culture and activity of swapping tubes toward different tonality goals so I appreciate any guidance and experience anyone can share.

Thank you!
Orange Rockerverb 100 MKIII [2017]
Orange PPC412-A [2017]
Orange PPC412 [2017]
Gibson SG Standard Silverburst [2007]
Gibson SG Standard Heritage Cherry [2016]
More than a dozen drive/Fuzz boxes.

Jondog
Duke of Orange
Posts: 7234
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:16 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)

Post by Jondog » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:21 pm

You cannot put EL84's in the amp, unless you get the yellow jacket tube converters.
Image

D|C|M|E
Tiny Terror
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:32 pm

Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)

Post by D|C|M|E » Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:42 pm

Jondog wrote:
Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:21 pm
You cannot put EL84's in the amp, unless you get the yellow jacket tube converters.
In the limited research I've done about them, I'm not even sure I would want to at this point but thank you for the confirmation. Much appreciated :D
Orange Rockerverb 100 MKIII [2017]
Orange PPC412-A [2017]
Orange PPC412 [2017]
Gibson SG Standard Silverburst [2007]
Gibson SG Standard Heritage Cherry [2016]
More than a dozen drive/Fuzz boxes.

Boy_Narf
Orange Master
Posts: 2494
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:27 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)

Post by Boy_Narf » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:35 pm

Resident Rockerverb hater chiming in here :D

EQ is weak on the dirty channel I will agree that. Very slight variations, but nothing major. I had the RV100MK1, but apparently the dirty channel was untouched on the MKII.

A dense fuzzy tone, but also articulation? Perhaps the OR100 would have been more up your alley?

If you want mud, you should have gone for the 100 watt. Couldn't stand the lack of definition.

I will also say there won't be an amazing amount of clean headroom on that guy. It will stay clean enough for a miced gig, but doubtful if you are unmiced with a loud drummer. I recently went on a quest for a super clean headroom amp, and ended up with a 500 watt bass amp/cab. There is no tube amp under 100 watts that was clean enough for me. Even then, some of them got too warm and muddy while looping. You could try an AT7 or AY7 in the preamp, but it will be at the expense of overall volume and "tubiness", or so I've been told.

Don't want to be a downer but I think you may have gotten the wrong amp. Not even kidding I was so mad at my RV100 that I just stored it in a closet for three years. In reality though, I was mad at myself for spending soo much cash on "the wrong amp". Lucky for you, yours was at a discount. I paid full retail :O If it's still possible, I would get a refund. You are never going to get close to what you paid used, unless you got it for over 50% off, or get lucky with a trade towards the head you want.

Also yes V30's sound better once they are broken in but they will take a while.

Not sure if you mentioned it, but what kind of music are you playing? Might be easier for us to recommend an amp based on that. Also what amps were you playing before? If you are looking for a Mesa, or 5150 sort of tone you aren't going to get it here. What you are going to get is a roaring thick and fuzzy low mid focused tone (with the higher wattage Oranges anyway). Also keep in mind each model in the lineup has their own quirks. To me it sounds like the TH100 might have done the trick for you. Power scaling, glorious clean channel,and best of all a lower price tag.

Dark Helmet
Orange Master
Posts: 1067
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:51 pm
Location: Lincoln, NE USA

Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)

Post by Dark Helmet » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:42 pm

1) That does not sounds fun... It took 3 trips to the shop to sort out a bad gain pot in my TV50 last month... REALLY aggravating.

2) you have the wrong amp. AD30 can get PLENTY muddy, and if that's not enough power, scavenge an old Ad140? I do NOT think an OR100 is the right answer here, at least not until I find one first.... :mrgreen:
Dark Lord of the Schwartz
AD15/12
AD30TC
AD50
AD140
Thunderverb50

2016 Gibson LP Standard
2012 Gibson LP Classic Custom
2017 Gibson Firebird Studio T
Epi Les Paul (used to be) Standard
2018 Taylor 616CE

D|C|M|E
Tiny Terror
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:32 pm

Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)

Post by D|C|M|E » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:41 pm

Boy_Narf wrote:
Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:35 pm
Resident Rockerverb hater chiming in here :D

EQ is weak on the dirty channel I will agree that. Very slight variations, but nothing major. I had the RV100MK1, but apparently the dirty channel was untouched on the MKII.

A dense fuzzy tone, but also articulation? Perhaps the OR100 would have been more up your alley?

If you want mud, you should have gone for the 100 watt. Couldn't stand the lack of definition.

I will also say there won't be an amazing amount of clean headroom on that guy. It will stay clean enough for a miced gig, but doubtful if you are unmiced with a loud drummer. I recently went on a quest for a super clean headroom amp, and ended up with a 500 watt bass amp/cab. There is no tube amp under 100 watts that was clean enough for me. Even then, some of them got too warm and muddy while looping. You could try an AT7 or AY7 in the preamp, but it will be at the expense of overall volume and "tubiness", or so I've been told.

Don't want to be a downer but I think you may have gotten the wrong amp. Not even kidding I was so mad at my RV100 that I just stored it in a closet for three years. In reality though, I was mad at myself for spending soo much cash on "the wrong amp". Lucky for you, yours was at a discount. I paid full retail :O If it's still possible, I would get a refund. You are never going to get close to what you paid used, unless you got it for over 50% off, or get lucky with a trade towards the head you want.

Also yes V30's sound better once they are broken in but they will take a while.

Not sure if you mentioned it, but what kind of music are you playing? Might be easier for us to recommend an amp based on that. Also what amps were you playing before? If you are looking for a Mesa, or 5150 sort of tone you aren't going to get it here. What you are going to get is a roaring thick and fuzzy low mid focused tone (with the higher wattage Oranges anyway). Also keep in mind each model in the lineup has their own quirks. To me it sounds like the TH100 might have done the trick for you. Power scaling, glorious clean channel,and best of all a lower price tag.
What I meant to get across was that I was willing to sacrifice articulation for a more dense fuzziness. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Unfortunately, the 100 watt was not available to me but its interesting that you say that because I was counting on the relatively lower power of the 50 to truncate the headroom and thereby kick out a greater level of compression and density on the dirty channel especially. Maybe I was mistaken in my thought process.

I appreciate all your feedback and I realize it may sound like I have chosen the wrong amp for me but the thing is I like the basic Orange tone it generates I just want to make the core of the drive tone chunkier. I enjoy the saturation but I feel like I need the treble to get more maybe "unfocused" or dense or something like that. I want the teble response to be LESS transparent toward the voice of the gain. I just want it to add sweetness but also some rip instead of just transparency. Does that make sense? Maybe I'm counting too much on the angle of the cab projecting the high end toward my face. I do find that I can turn the treble down when I sit on the floor and have my ears level with the top two speakers but I feel like it really should be projecting better high end. I'm looking into preamp tubes now to try to find ones that will give me what I'm looking for in the 3rd and 4th gain stages. So far I'm trying to find tubes with stronger signal and more brightness. I think this may be what I need to get where I'm trying to go with this head.

My clean channel as it sits right now is exceptionally clean at 50% volume. I haven't dared turn it up higher yet as I've had no need to go beyond that and I only did it the one time to test its breakup point in the house. By that point there had been no break up.

The part of your post that I bolded is exactly what I love about Orange. Its why I chose Orange in the first place. And the thing about the dirty channel on my head is that I feel like its missing that "roar" and "thickness" that you're describing. Its kind of there naturally but feels very subdued. But at the same time I have seen/heard Rockerverbs (and MKII's especially) used to get my desired tone, admittedly, mostly in YouTube videos and as I've stated, I realize there can be a chasm of difference between the qualities you're hearing from a video recording (especially if the audio is mic'd well separately and synced in post) and what you'll experience from direct personal usage of an amp.

I remember the first time I plugged into a proper 5150 single channel from the 90's and I couldn't believe an amp could have that type of distortion grain. I feel similarly about Orange amps and the Rockerverb was essentially the Orange whose layout was the best fit for what I'm comfortable with. I need three band EQ. I need a dedicated clean and a dedicated drive channel and they should have their own EQ (non-shared). And as I've stated, I have heard RV's achieve exquisite tones that are exactly to my liking. I just want to make mine sound as good as those and I've been hit with some impediments to that goal.

Just because you asked, I'll say that I'm mostly playing and shooting for the tone of Stoner/Desert Rock or Doom/Fuzz and Proto Metal (Sabbathesque) with a twinge of Progressive Rock in the vein of early Mars Volta. I have plenty of fuzz boxes to get variations on those tones as well but I wanted to have the integral gain of the amp to present another tonal option that touches on that territory as well and from what I've seen, I CAN achieve it with a Rockerverb. I'm just having trouble getting mine to that point. I do love rolling the gain back and getting some crunchy vintage sounds as well which is another reason why I chose Orange, for that flexibility.

I understand where you're coming from and I very much appreciate all your feedback. It helps me decipher what may be my best course of action. I think I'll start with preamp tubes. I'm open to any more feedback from anyone else especially RV users whether you have good or bad news for me.
Orange Rockerverb 100 MKIII [2017]
Orange PPC412-A [2017]
Orange PPC412 [2017]
Gibson SG Standard Silverburst [2007]
Gibson SG Standard Heritage Cherry [2016]
More than a dozen drive/Fuzz boxes.

Boy_Narf
Orange Master
Posts: 2494
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:27 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)

Post by Boy_Narf » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:39 pm

The 100 watt IMO has a serious over emphasis in the low mid range that made it too boomy/muddy for my liking. Impossible to dial out with an EQ thanks to its limited frequency. On the opposite side of that, 100 watts was just too much to get a proper tube tone. It had to be LOUD! and I mean LOUD! to get them just roaring. I barely ever had that amp up past 2 or 3. Really a bad purchase decision haha.

I would assume you are using something with a humbucker, or high output? I can get all my Orange amps to roar with humbuckers or P90's, but regardless of settings, my Tele always sounds a bit thin.

If you are digging the base tone then I would look into a bit of tone sculpting. Get a nice full band EQ pedal, or the king of adding "magic" to your tone, the EP booster. There are a few guys around here who run always on boosts, or sculpting pedals of some sort. Another option could be to run an overdrive pedal with the dirty channel. gain low, volume high, should get it to roar a bit more. Of course make sure to get something with a proper EQ. I have a pedal from loop master that has a bypass loop and channel switcher built in one. I press one button and it changes channels and engages the loop. Great if you want an always on effect on one of the channels only. I think it was $40.

Could also be a bad batch of tubes. New tubes in all my amps (except an old Traynor) made a night and day difference. I put full JJ re-tube kits in all my amps as soon as I get them. Take a look inside and see what they are. I know Oranges used to come with JJ and Ruby (I think?). If they are the no name tubes, that could be part of it. Some of they can sound pretty weak.

I find the JJ tubes to add more warmth to the clean channel and thicken up the low end on the dirty channel a touch. I have to run the gain a touch higher to match the level of the old tubes though. The best part is that they add clarity to my dirty tone in the upper registers. I play a lot of melodic post hardcore and post rock so I need maximum clarity of full chords under heavy dirt.

There are tons of topics on this forum talking about tubes. Probably even a few tube shootouts too. Might be worth taking a gander. Only thing that sucks about the RV is that you have to bias it. Not difficult, but you need to buy a bit of gear. Oh! That just got me thinking, that perhaps the bias on your amp is set too cold. I played around with hot and cold biases back in the day, and was really surprised at the tonal differences. Might be worth a look, just be careful!

D|C|M|E
Tiny Terror
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:32 pm

Re: RV50H MKII Problems (Long story)

Post by D|C|M|E » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:05 pm

Boy_Narf wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:39 pm
The 100 watt IMO has a serious over emphasis in the low mid range that made it too boomy/muddy for my liking. Impossible to dial out with an EQ thanks to its limited frequency. On the opposite side of that, 100 watts was just too much to get a proper tube tone. It had to be LOUD! and I mean LOUD! to get them just roaring. I barely ever had that amp up past 2 or 3. Really a bad purchase decision haha.

I would assume you are using something with a humbucker, or high output? I can get all my Orange amps to roar with humbuckers or P90's, but regardless of settings, my Tele always sounds a bit thin.

If you are digging the base tone then I would look into a bit of tone sculpting. Get a nice full band EQ pedal, or the king of adding "magic" to your tone, the EP booster. There are a few guys around here who run always on boosts, or sculpting pedals of some sort. Another option could be to run an overdrive pedal with the dirty channel. gain low, volume high, should get it to roar a bit more. Of course make sure to get something with a proper EQ. I have a pedal from loop master that has a bypass loop and channel switcher built in one. I press one button and it changes channels and engages the loop. Great if you want an always on effect on one of the channels only. I think it was $40.

Could also be a bad batch of tubes. New tubes in all my amps (except an old Traynor) made a night and day difference. I put full JJ re-tube kits in all my amps as soon as I get them. Take a look inside and see what they are. I know Oranges used to come with JJ and Ruby (I think?). If they are the no name tubes, that could be part of it. Some of they can sound pretty weak.

I find the JJ tubes to add more warmth to the clean channel and thicken up the low end on the dirty channel a touch. I have to run the gain a touch higher to match the level of the old tubes though. The best part is that they add clarity to my dirty tone in the upper registers. I play a lot of melodic post hardcore and post rock so I need maximum clarity of full chords under heavy dirt.

There are tons of topics on this forum talking about tubes. Probably even a few tube shootouts too. Might be worth taking a gander. Only thing that sucks about the RV is that you have to bias it. Not difficult, but you need to buy a bit of gear. Oh! That just got me thinking, that perhaps the bias on your amp is set too cold. I played around with hot and cold biases back in the day, and was really surprised at the tonal differences. Might be worth a look, just be careful!
Thank you for the reply. Believe it or not but your 100 watt description reads like it would be music to my ears. I have contacted Orange via email and the representative I'm corresponding with has been wonderful so far. We're making arrangements to rectify my situation but I wanted to respond to you and let you know I appreciate all of your feedback.

Since you asked I'm using mostly two SG Standards with stock Gibson chrome covered humbuckers. I also have a LP Classic Custom with the same types of pickups that I don't really use as much because it needs a new setup.

Here's what I want to tell you about my latest experience playing a brand new MKIII through a PPC412 straight cab at a Guitar Center last weekend. I plugged in to see how comparable the drive was to mine and even though mine is MKII, I know the essence of what the Rockerverb does should be shared by all versions of it. I dialed in the gain way high and even maxed it. I dialed in a desirable EQ setting and right away this MKIII has the potential for full on treble clarity. This wasn't just a case of a "Dark" amp for me. The Rockerverb EQ is clearly meant to afford players the option of brightening up intensely while still being in a usable frequency range. When I played chords and power chords through this MKIII with the gain at 3:00 and beyond, the tone was pure ecstasy for me. There was fuzzy chunk, there was simultaneously an in tact layer of hard rock crunch on the top, there was a thick nasty swamp of low to high midrange, a thumping bottom end and the chunky chewy outer edges of tonal texture I've never heard come out of any other amp before. This is the stuff dreams are made of. I felt like I was blasted off into the Pillars Of Creation.

My MKII has a buttload of saturation and gain and it faintly produces some of those qualities but its treble response is barely half of what the MKIII's treble response is and it sounds like its struggling to actually do the amplification of the whole bass, mid and treble frequencies. I know something is damaged in that circuit. Like I said, I'm arranging with Orange to rectify the problem but I want to thank you again for all your responses.

For the love of God I wish they had not taken the mid control off of the MKIII clean channel. That just guts me because the MKIII dirty channel is the most unbelievably perfect amp distortion I could ever imagine. The notching of the knobs is another mind****! I just can't believe they did that. I know some of the earliest MKIII heads that came out did not have the notching. I've seen videos of people twisting those knobs without the abrupt clicking into a notch. I can't fathom why you would limit control like that. I think I could live with having a MKIII even with those limitations but running some of my more scooped fuzz boxes into that clean would just break my heart as they would probably disappear from the mix in a live setting. I don't know. Maybe if I get the option to acquire a MKIII at some point I'll find a way to deal with it.

That's my update.
Orange Rockerverb 100 MKIII [2017]
Orange PPC412-A [2017]
Orange PPC412 [2017]
Gibson SG Standard Silverburst [2007]
Gibson SG Standard Heritage Cherry [2016]
More than a dozen drive/Fuzz boxes.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 88 guests