Orange Amps Forum

To be honest, I have never felt quite at ease with my Orange Ad50. I have tried quiet a few things from diff. speakers, attenuators and so on. The main parts of guitar sound are guitar, plus amp, plus cab. When looking at your guitar, the first major factor that comes into play is whether you use single coils or humbuckers. I play a les paul. I would love to have more guitars, but my economy for the time being leaves me with just one guitar, which I am quite happy with as well. I have had the feeling that a les paul and my orange ad50 in combination tend to make things a little muddy. It has improved since I started using the 50 w setting. However - now I have begun using a TAD RT033/ ECC803S in v1 - which is often used in hifi as well. I find that this tube makes a HUGE difference. The mud is gone. The notes are clear. It might have a little less gain but it is really sweet. This is the first time I have actually felt that the Les Paul and the Ad50 combination is really working. Balanced top end, midrange and not too overpowering in the lows. The darkness of the amp seems to be gone. I now keep presence at 2 o´clock, treble at noon and the bass around 10.30. Gain around noon and volume around 3-4 o´clock and my attenuator (palmer) around 35%. Looking forward to next band rehersal

Cool!

You seem to be in a constant fight with your amp. Have you tried pedals like eq's or special boosts? An EP booster at unity gain is a great "always on" pedal. Adds a bit of dimension or sparkle. Pedals are great when you want to constantly experiment. Changing tubes all the time is costly for a small sometimes undesirable result. Ultimately it may not be the right amp for you, but sometimes you have to work with what you got.

Yeah, I´m at the end of the rope with this one. If the latest changes don´t do the trick an eq pedal might be worth a try. Otherwise it might be time to just accept it as it is or give it the boot

You say your tone is a bit on the muddy side.

What model is your LP? What pick ups does it have? Have you had the opportunity to try different guitars through that amp?

I've never tried the AD50, but own an AD15 and had an AD30TC for short while too. My LP was ace with them, no mud whatsoever. (My LP has the burstbucker pro pick ups) i still own the AD15, and my LP probably is my favorite guitar through it. I will confess, I can't push the bass knob further the mids or treble with my LP as the bass can get a bit flubby and undefined then - but that's more specific to the amp / guitar combo. My EQ settings can be altered for other guitars.

Yeah, the ceramic pickups that some LP's come with are pretty awful. My 1990 LP Classic that's all-gold had the ceramics and I replaced them with 57 Classics and the difference was night and day...

You've been fighting with that amp since you got it. I have doubts that a single pre-tube change is going to make or break it for you at this point. Though, playing the amp in a band context is the only thing that matters, so hopefully it works out at rehearsal.

If not, I think it's time to move on. Personally, the problem I've had with modern Oranges is that they are indeed dark, but don't have the very prominent midrange like the old circuits. They tend to get lost. It may be midrange you're looking for, and not top end. Top end doesn't cut in a band setting, it gets lost in cymbal wash and vocals.

Here's what I've found:
-You have to find frequencies you can occupy in your particular band setting. This is typically midrange, but it can differ.

-Overdriven guitar is MUCH harder to dial in than clean guitar. Overdrive, by nature, is very compressed. You're completely dependent on the frequency response, as you've basically squashed all the transients. When playing clean, you can get away without a lot of midrange (and it often sound better too), because the signal isn't compressed and the pick attack comes out. With overdrive, you have to exist in the midrange.

-Speakers make a HUGE difference. They typically matter as much or more than the guitar. Small magnet speakers don't do well with anything but bright thin clean tones. Medium magnet speakers are good for overdrive and they have a nice midrange, but they compress a lot so you have to be careful with how you use them. Heavy magnet speakers have more low and and more high. They stay more articulate when pushed, but a lot of them don't quite have the midrange presence of a medium magnet driver.

-Ceramic speakers have a lot of bite and presence and a forward sound. But they also have trash frequencies riding on top of the sound and are fatiguing to the ear at high volumes, and when distorted. AlNiCo magnet speakers have less bite and a less aggressive sound. They compress a lot more so they round off the transients. However, they're easier on the ears, with better note definition and less trash frequencies and white noise.

-There are decisions we make that cause phase cancellations. This is usually speaker mixing, and/or using 2 pickups on the guitar at the same time. Quite often, you're cancelling frequencies that you need. This is something to be mindful of.

-The more people there are at a venue, the better things sound. The amount of sound bouncing around in a room with minimal people in there watching can make things sound messy, even if the band sounds good. Play smaller places that you can fill, as opposed to playing a larger sized venue that you can't fill.

-You are in a battle with the other instruments, especially if you have another guitar. You have to work together so everyone can be heard without getting into volume wars. With guitars, I've found it's best to either have a very similar approach (both guitar players having very similar setups), or being starkly opposite, which is harder to dial in, but can work just as well. In short, every instrument can sound amazing on its own, but not work well together in the band mix. In contrast, sounds that aren't stellar on their own can really shine in a band setting.

What pups combo is in your LP? 490/498?

Our other guitar player has a 2010 LP Studio with 490/498.
My 2016 SG Standard also has 490/498.
The difference between the 2 guitars when A/B'ed through the same amp is incredible. His LP Studio is bassy and muddy at times, where my SG is very bright, biting and middy.

I'd suggest trying different pups that accentuate mids like the SD SH55, try a P-90 guitar, or try an SG and see how that works through the same amp.

lunchbox wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:06 pm

What pups combo is in your LP? 490/498?

Our other guitar player has a 2010 LP Studio with 490/498.
My 2016 SG Standard also has 490/498.
The difference between the 2 guitars when A/B'ed through the same amp is incredible. His LP Studio is bassy and muddy at times, where my SG is very bright, biting and middy.

I'd suggest trying different pups that accentuate mids like the SD SH55, try a P-90 guitar, or try an SG and see how that works through the same amp.

The pots in the guitar can also make a huge difference. I have 3 LP's all with the 490/498T combo. One sounds perfect with 330K pots, the other is slightly thin, even with 330K pots, and the other one needs 500K pots, as it's much darker and sounds muddy with 330K.

Without getting into a tone wood debate, you're right, the individual guitar does make a notable difference. They all sound a little different from each other.

fiveightandten wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:09 pm

lunchbox wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:06 pm

What pups combo is in your LP? 490/498?

Our other guitar player has a 2010 LP Studio with 490/498.
My 2016 SG Standard also has 490/498.
The difference between the 2 guitars when A/B'ed through the same amp is incredible. His LP Studio is bassy and muddy at times, where my SG is very bright, biting and middy.

I'd suggest trying different pups that accentuate mids like the SD SH55, try a P-90 guitar, or try an SG and see how that works through the same amp.

The pots in the guitar can also make a huge difference. I have 3 LP's all with the 490/498T combo. One sounds perfect with 330K pots, the other is slightly thin, even with 330K pots, and the other one needs 500K pots, as it's much darker and sounds muddy with 330K.

Without getting into a tone wood debate, you're right, the individual guitar does make a notable difference. They all sound a little different from each other.

Yes, the pots make a ton of difference too. I forgot to mention that. 500k will be much brighter and fuller. My 16 SG Standard came stock with 500k's. I think Gibson made the change to all 500k (either Alpha or CTS) a few years back, iirc. I could ask on MLP.

Also the wiring style. The Gibson modern wiring pattern turns down the tone as well when the volume is turned down. If you switch the wiring to the 1950's schematic the tone pot is run independently and keeps clarity when you turn down the volume.

lunchbox wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:13 pm

fiveightandten wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:09 pm

lunchbox wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:06 pm

What pups combo is in your LP? 490/498?

Our other guitar player has a 2010 LP Studio with 490/498.
My 2016 SG Standard also has 490/498.
The difference between the 2 guitars when A/B'ed through the same amp is incredible. His LP Studio is bassy and muddy at times, where my SG is very bright, biting and middy.

I'd suggest trying different pups that accentuate mids like the SD SH55, try a P-90 guitar, or try an SG and see how that works through the same amp.

The pots in the guitar can also make a huge difference. I have 3 LP's all with the 490/498T combo. One sounds perfect with 330K pots, the other is slightly thin, even with 330K pots, and the other one needs 500K pots, as it's much darker and sounds muddy with 330K.

Without getting into a tone wood debate, you're right, the individual guitar does make a notable difference. They all sound a little different from each other.

Yes, the pots make a ton of difference too. I forgot to mention that. 500k will be much brighter and fuller. My 16 SG Standard came stock with 500k's. I think Gibson made the change to all 500k (either Alpha or CTS) a few years back, iirc. I could ask on MLP.

Also the wiring style. The Gibson modern wiring pattern turns down the tone as well when the volume is turned down. If you switch the wiring to the 1950's schematic the tone pot is run independently and keeps clarity when you turn down the volume.

My gibson les paul custom has burst bucker pro pickups. I don´t know much about pickups but would assume they are good ones

My LP has burstbucker pro pick ups - my favourite humbucker pick ups.

Have you tried other guitars through your amp?

I was having the same issue with my les paul classic and my rv50c (mk1). I switched to a guitar with '57 classics and the difference was as Billy said, night and day.

Here's a basic chart of Gibson pup outputs. In general, the lower the output the 'cleaner' the tone will be. I've never owned Burstbuckers so can't really comment. I've had '57 Classics in a '91 LP Standard, and currently have 490R/498T in my '16 SG Standard. I swapped the Classics for some SD Seth Lover SH55's and that was much better. But I like the SG stock as it is (for now).

If you're concerned that it might be the pups, then do some searches for Burstbucker vs XXXX, or Burstbucker opinions. Or look on YT for comparison vids.

kars0747 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:44 am

My gibson les paul custom has burst bucker pro pickups. I don´t know much about pickups but would assume they are good ones

Les Paul Customs are dark sounding guitars in general. Have you tried other guitars with the amp in a band setting?