Can you get a good metal sound without pedals?

[megalithic]

The amps I have at home do not have enough gain, but I've tried several OR15s and Marshalls in shops, and they sounded really good.

On the other hand, even my Micro Dark sounded better in the shop, when I play it at home it seems to lack gain. And it kind of gets flabby when the gain is too high.

The reason I'm asking is because the vast majority of youtube metal demos use some kind of overdrive even on high gain amps.

Besides the above mentioned OR15 and Marshalls, there are other high gain amps like Engl and Mesa. Do they really sound that flabby without a pedal?

[Jondog]

Perhaps it's the guitar or cab

[megalithic]

Perhaps it's the guitar or cab

Not sure what you are referring to exactly. I only own a Micro Dark out of the ones mentioned in the post, and have tried it with a bunch of cabs and guitars, and one of my cabs has the same Vintage 30 as the Orange cab in the shop.

[Jondog]

Just a thought, as I don't know what gear you're using. You said it sounded different at the shop. I don't like the sound of an overdrive added to an amp being run at high gain. In my experience that's when it gets flabby sounding. However, adding the overdrive to a slightly overdriven amp with the pedal gain set high can result in a tighter sound depending on the pedal. Preferably a pedal with more mids for me. I thought the Xotic BB preamp was great for this.

[PBA]

Metal sounds were originally made on less genre-specific amps. The technique developed was to boost the guitar signal into the front end of the amp. The tube screamer became the classic pedal to use as it cuts both treble and bass frequencies which can cause the flubby looseness you describe.

However, modern metal style amps generally don't need boosting in that way as they are designed to produce that sound on their own.

It might be that you have the eq set with too much bass and treble and not enough mids. Try the Micro Dark shape control and remember that guitar tones are always best heard in the context of other amps.

[a.hun]

Actually many modern metal sounds have SCOOPED mids, ie less mids...


Andy.

[PBA]

Actually many modern metal sounds have SCOOPED mids, ie less mids...


Andy.

Yep - very true. The OP's comments don't tend to imply a heavily mid-scooped sound though. I think the shape control on the Micro Dark should give both scooped and mid heavy sounds at the extremes?

[adkguy07]

Actually many modern metal sounds have SCOOPED mids, ie less mids...


Andy.

Yep - very true. The OP's comments don't tend to imply a heavily mid-scooped sound though. I think the shape control on the Micro Dark should give both scooped and mid heavy sounds at the extremes?

It does. The OP needs to experiment with the Micro Dark's "Shape" control. It essentialy shapes the center of the mid frequencies and consequently enhances or restricts the highs and lows depending on just where it is positioned. That Shape knob is your "friend".


adkguy07

[pedecamp]

I'm thinking the OP needs to put any clean boost in front of their amp to tighten it up. Popular are the TS9, SD-1, RAT to name a few. I just ordered an Xotic BB Preamp and should have it next week, I'll post my review of it once I figure out the best way to use it.

[Hubaxe]

Gain is not necessarely the unique key, as some poster mentionned above, the mid scope is the trick. If you have a graphic EQ you can experiment a bit further than the shape knob.

[SIXTENCONNECTOR]

Great example of what an OD can do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr53Fv3UuGc Can't see his settings but I have maxon 0d808 and setting it up as a clean boost (gain=0, vol=8/9, tone=to taste) definitely gives it more bite. What I don't like is that it cuts out a bit too much of the low end. But in all honesty this is usually needed because lots of metal dudes (my younger self included) crank the bass and cut too much of the mids. I use my od808 as a solo boost sometimes but not an always on type of pedal anymore. You might like it though. I play a rockerverb mk2 which of course is diff than dark terror. The vid with Ola playing is pretty good proof of what it can do for ya. Have fun!

[Boy_Narf]

Modern metal does not have scooped mids. 90's metal? oh heck yes. All about that scoop. You can get a great metal sound without pedals of course. My TT is my main practice amp and my R30 is my main recording amp for my progressive metal project. No pedals, just straight into the dirty channel. If you want that hi-fi clanky djent sound, Oranges do struggle a bit in that department. You would definitely need a sculpting pedal of some sort.

What kind of metal are you playing?

What brand of cab are you using?

In all honesty, the Micro Dark isn't an amazing amp. It doesn't at all compare to ENGL or MESA. A better comparison to their mini heads would be the Dark Terror. The shape control is a bit of a limiting factor as well. If anything, an EQ pedal would help big time in dialling out the flub and boosting the gain.

[Les Paul Lover]

The amps I have at home do not have enough gain, but I've tried several OR15s and Marshalls in shops, and they sounded really good.

On the other hand, even my Micro Dark sounded better in the shop, when I play it at home it seems to lack gain. And it kind of gets flabby when the gain is too high.

The reason I'm asking is because the vast majority of youtube metal demos use some kind of overdrive even on high gain amps.

Besides the above mentioned OR15 and Marshalls, there are other high gain amps like Engl and Mesa. Do they really sound that flabby without a pedal?

I'm not sure I understand your query.

The micro dark is primarily a small hard rock metal amp.

It has a different flavour to, say, Engl or mesa, but its designed for metal, and has plenty enough gain for it (4 gain stages if I'm correct). In most cases, half the gain available should be enough for most rhythms settings, with EQ to taste, as metal is recorded both heavy or scooped mids depending on band.

So may be you don't like the micro dark - that's ok. May be (please don't get offended) you need to work on your technic as it's a big part of playing metal. Again don't be offended, I have no idea what / how you play, all I know is micro dark = metal if you want to play that.

[Les Paul Lover]

Modern metal does not have scooped mids. 90's metal? oh heck yes. All about that scoop. You can get a great metal sound without pedals of course. My TT is my main practice amp and my R30 is my main recording amp for my progressive metal project. No pedals, just straight into the dirty channel. If you want that hi-fi clanky djent sound, Oranges do struggle a bit in that department. You would definitely need a sculpting pedal of some sort.

What kind of metal are you playing?

What brand of cab are you using?

In all honesty, the Micro Dark isn't an amazing amp. It doesn't at all compare to ENGL or MESA. A better comparison to their mini heads would be the Dark Terror. The shape control is a bit of a limiting factor as well. If anything, an EQ pedal would help big time in dialling out the flub and boosting the gain.

Good point here. The micro dark remains a budget amp, and isn't going to rival 50 or 100w high gain valve heads.

I assume the OP doesn't expect that though.

[Boy_Narf]

The real question is what kind of metal you are playing? Similar bands?